Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:22:06 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #293 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Inayan in Germany (Dieter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) 2. Historical importance (TABULA RAZA) 3. eskrima in hamburg (inayan) (apo.k.lypse) 4. And so on and so on (Marc Denny) 5. Tom's Reply (C. Herrman) 6. GatPuno and arnisadors from Luzon (Jay de Leon) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:18:26 +0200 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Organization: Abanico Video Productions To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Inayan in Germany Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Message: 2 > From: "R.J. Marcaida" > To: > Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:48:18 -0400 > Subject: [Eskrima] Inayan Germany > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Greetings, > A German friend of mine was interested in studying FMA. He stated that > the only FMA he knew of in Hamburg ,Germany is headed by Jeff Espinous and > John Ward. He stated that they are from the Inayan system FMA. They are also > affiliated with the IKAEF. Being that I know nothing about these gentlemen, > I would appreciate it if you guys could give me any info on them. > > Sincerely, > Rj Marcaida Hi, it is right that Jeff Espinous teaches FMA in Hamburg. He is a very talented martial artist that also had good contact to Suro Mike Inay in the 90ies. But he teaches his own System of Kali Sikaran However, Masirib Guro Emanuel Hart send a mail about 2 weeks ago, that officially declares, that the IKAEF under Jeff Espinous is not longer supported by the ISE/IBE. Jeff is still a good martial artist but is not representing Inayan in Germany (any more). If your friend is interested in Modern Arnis, we have 2 groups in Hamburg. Send me a mail to datu@modern-arnis.de Or ask your friend to call me (in Germany 0231-4948060) and I can give their telephone numbers. Best regards from Germany Dieter Knüttel Datu of Modern Arnis ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de http://www.modern-arnis.de --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:34:07 -1000 (HST) From: TABULA RAZA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Historical importance Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > In all honesty, Dr. H. Otley Beyer's theory of the "3 > waves of migration" consisting of pygmy Negroes, > followed by Indonesians and then by Malays before the > Spaniards came to the PHilippines has already been put > into serious question by Philippinologist historians > and anthropologists. I agree with the other Fil-Am's > post that it's more likely that the Philippines was a > source of people and not a mere receiving backwater. > > I disagree though that it's unnecessary to dig into > the past to give historical validity to FMA techniques > and other stuff. Although ultimately it's the > effectivity that counts and not the history, a sense > of history is also necessary for us Flips to take > pride in and notice of the FMA. I betcha, most of us > younger Flips won't touch it with a ten foot pole if > we are taught that it was entirely developed from > Spanish swordfighting techniques (which isn't true > anyway; there was some influence but not entirely). > Because it would only show how empty our culture is. > Some measure of reconstructivist "Pinoy Pride" > affirmative historical discourse is necessary. Of > course a lot of techniques and methods were developed > during the Spanish times as a result of interactions > with European swordfighting as well as directly copied > from the Spaniards themselves, but in the main it is > necessary to point out that the core of FMA techniques > are indigenous (although not necessarily pre-colonial > although there's evidence that points out the fact > that the core IS INDEED precolonial). I've seen video > footage of tribesmen in the Visayas who live in > Panay's hinterlands doing what looked to me to be a > war dance, using "ginunting" blades and prancing > around in what looked like Pekiti-Tirsia footwork. To > me, it affirmed Tuhon Gaje's assertions that there's a > base, a very rich base, of precolonial FMA techniques > and methods that predate the Spanish invasion. > Yes my friend, I too believe that is important to study Philippine pre-Hispanic history, though it is my fault for not making it clear enough that I think at times as FMA practitioners, sometimes we get too carried away in how we think our ancestral art was and should be, and how the "original techniques" once looked. I think I may have sounded too extreme when I say I don't care about pre-HIspanic martial art history. I too think it is relevant, just that I think more of the focus should be on the present practitioner. I have just met too many "overly-nationalistic/ ethno-centric" Filipinos, and Fil-Ams being in my line of study, Philippine Studies and FMA, of course, so I was kind of writing with that in mind (the extreme cases). For example, I used to know a whole bit of people who would not block or punch a certain way because it wasn't the "Filipino way". Same goes for kung fu, and even karate. That's what Bruce Lee was about. When the history becomes more im[portant to the present reality of fighting then its more a hindrance than a help. One needs history to know the antecedents of the art, but like I said earlier, it's the present practitioner that proves the worth of the art, not historical facts. I know everyone knows at least a few, within FMA or other martial arts, who have talked for days about the "deadliness" of their martial art 2,000 yrs. ago, but ain't their worth of salt in the present, 2,000 yrs. later. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:15:22 +0200 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: "apo.k.lypse" Subject: [Eskrima] eskrima in hamburg (inayan) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, A German friend of mine was interested in studying FMA. He stated that the only FMA he knew of in Hamburg ,Germany is headed by Jeff Espinous and John Ward. He stated that they are from the Inayan system FMA. They are also affiliated with the IKAEF. Being that I know nothing about these gentlemen, I would appreciate it if you guys could give me any info on them. Sincerely, Rj Marcaida hi there, delurking mode. as i had the opportunity to attend two seminars with mister espinous i would recommend him a lot. besides him being a nice guy with a lot of humor, he always surprises with his great knowledge (as he has a background not only in arnis as also in indonesian, vietnamese, french whatever and more MA) achim --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:53:11 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] And so on and so on Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: From: "David Eke" > >And Ray, I too would like to know when GT Gaji started calling PT Kali, > the >guys I trained with called it Arnis and pronoused (sp) it "ARNEZ" > > I think the answer lies in a number of lines in Dan Inosantos book "The > Filipino Martial Arts". > > "Escrima in the Philippines is dead, they say. The proven fighters, the > adventurous ones, have all left. If what they say is true, then America > is the new home of the Escrimador-or Kali- of the ancient savage and > sophisticated arts of the Filipino people." P.13 > > "Ben Largusa separates himself from the title of Escrima master. He is > a man of Kali, the older Filipino art." P.30 > > GT Gaje started calling PT "KALI" because he thought that it was > politically and financially advantageous to align himself with a number > of other FMA instructors like Ben Largusa (supported by Guro I's book) > who wanted to differentiate themselves from the indigenous FMA as being > somehow "older" or "better" > > Clearly this attitude was based on ignorance of the facts, Escrima if > you cared to look for it was always alive and well in the Philippines. > It's a shame the Guro Dan at the time of writing his first book had made > no attempt to travel to the Philippines and find out for himself. If he > had he would never have made any reference to America being the new home > of the Escrimador and in the late 70's and 80's it would have been the > perfect opportunity for him to document many of the varying styles of > the indigenous FMA. Many of the old Masters were still alive, > unfortunately now (for most) it is too late. As I've confessed previously, I am a simple-minded doggy on matters of terminology-- I just don't get the passion that these matters seem to excite amongst many. The passage quoted above has not one but several perennial themes blended together. As I've noted here before, Guro Inosanto is quoting his teachers, not taking a personal position. "they say , , , if what they say is true , , ," How much clearer can he make it? As for efforts "documenting varying styles" I submit that very few are in his league in this regard. As for the passed Masters whose knowledge died with them-- perhaps their belief in secrecy had something to do with it? As for the aspersions on motives of sundry players, I have no knowledge and thus no opinion. As for the Villabrille-Largusa use of the term, there was a post in this regard from someone whose name, rank etc slips my mind who was from the Villabrille organization who spoke to this clearly and well-- at least to my ignorant eye. As for my use of the term Kali, I have already gone into this at some length previously. I have no apologies for it. You use the term you like and so do I. And so on and so on, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:52:50 -0700 From: "C. Herrman" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Tom's Reply Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to thank Tom Meadows for both of his contributions to the Doce Pares politics thread. I hope to be able to approach all of the accusations and politics I see with the same wisdom. Sincerely, Chris H. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jay de Leon" To: Cc: "Jay de Leon" Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:05:25 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] GatPuno and arnisadors from Luzon Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GatPuno mentioned some very prominent GM's from Luzon. I am taking this opportunity to mention a fine FMA group in Manitoba, Canada headed by Maestro Bernardo Fabia Salinas from Pangasinan. His group is Canada International Martial Arts Society (CIMAS), they have a website at www.geocities.com/cimasociety and I happen to be their California representative. Also, Grandmaster Nes Fernandez, who was prominent in the CA Bay Area and had a school in Daly City, was from Pangasinan. He also has video instructional tapes from Tiger Claw. He is now retired in the Philippines, and he is my cousin (his mother and my father were second-degree cousins from Binmaley, Pangasinan). I was born and grew up in Manila, but consider Pangasinan my home province. Jay de Leon --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest