Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:31:04 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #297 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re:David Eke's comments (phili[ gelinas) 2. Re: forms in eskrima, kali, arnis (Ray Terry) 3. A Filipino's View of GM I (glenn magpayo) 4. Re: Offense? (Bill S Lowery) 5. Re: Offense? (Ray Terry) 6. Inosanto (Musilat@aol.com) 7. Re: Inosanto (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:25:26 -0400 From: "phili[ gelinas" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re:David Eke's comments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It always amuses me how we wax philosophical from a historically revised position and conveniently omit or obscure certain facts that would cause us to revise our position. David Eke accuses Guro Inosanto of several errors in the FMA book (Out of print) and expects Guro Inosanto to shoulder this blame alone and perhaps wear a hair shirt to "atone" for these sins. The openness that Mr Eke says was omnipresent at a WEKAF event in Cebu in 1987 was neither present nor even possible in pre 1980 when the FMA book was written. GM Gaje has recounted to me how his great Uncle Benjamin Tortal would not talk to him after he started to teach Pekiti Tirsia to the public. This because he took the sacred family arts and taught it outside the family group. Was it different in the Philippines? I think not. Though things might have been available to locals,foreigners or those from other islands or ethnic groups were barred from learning. One of the ways that the Spanish were able to destabilize the Philippines in 1521 was to actively promote the hostility between these same tribal groups. Add this to the post war desire to subvert the old ways and enter the 20th century in a progressive way tended to subvert practice in these methods. Although far removed geographically these traits were not exclusive to the migrated Filipinos. I am sure that Mr. Eke is doing no more than parroting things he has heard from his teachers in the Philippines about the many injustices that this book has perpetrated on the masters still there. We all seem to identify with our teachers and that is a noble thing. The years enable us to see that no opinion is sacrosanct nor any truth inviolate. Most people would not be practicing these arts if it was not for this book or someone inspired by it. It not only presented the FMAs in an interesting and perceptive way, it allowed for the existence of many systems without falling on the old "this was is better that that way scenario" that seems to permeate most books on martial arts. Guro Inosanto owes us no apologies. We owe him our appreciation for stimulating the masters in the Philippines to open up and teach if for no reason than to counter what was written. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] forms in eskrima, kali, arnis To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 07:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > when i used to train in modern arnis we learned many forms, how common is > this in the > FMA....I am now training in the inosannto blend of lacost and the ae > none..can someone answer this form??? Form as in kata/poomse/hyung? There is at least one in Doce Pares, but I don't think they are very common in the FMAs. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:14:28 -0700 (PDT) From: glenn magpayo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] A Filipino's View of GM I Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Not trying to take sides...I think everyone has some valid points (going to the Philippines; untrue statements in his book; and misuse of terminology). But I have some opinons I'd like to share. First, martial law did not prevent anyone from travelling to the Philippines. If you really want to go, anyone, especially and American, can go. With as many trips around the world as GM Inosanto has taken, it's clear he has no interest in going. (Notice I said "interest", not "fear"). For whatever reason, he feels he has little need to investigate the Filipino martial arts styles any further, and is checking out other systems around the world. HOWEVER, it can be a big slap in the face to patriotic Filipinos who may have once idolized him and/or consider Dan Inosanto "one of our children". As a Filipino martial artist, and especially one considered at the top of his field, it would make sense to at least make a pilgrimmage to the source, where they are still evolving and specializing in the arts. As for the false statements in the book, a public retraction of those statements or a correction to counter the misinformation being spread as fact would say that it was a mistake. But to basically ignore and move on says that he has no desire to correct the mistakes. And this should be done in public, like another book, or especially in a national publication. I have been looking for corrections, and all I see are the students and followers of Filipino born teachers arguing with students of the Kali groups about the facts. I don't take them personal, but I see many around me that do. And correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the main teachers of GM Inosanto all from the Visayas? I would think that although there are hundreds of dialects spoken in the PI (some spoken by only a few hundred people), most of the terms would be Visayan, Tagalog, and only two or three more. Whatever dialects do these words come from? Why aren't we seeing these terms being used by other Pinoys? Many of the dialects have common words, and many people speak several dialects. I can't see words being used for thirty-odd years, and no Filipino Master has confirmed some of those words yet. Some words I have seen are obviously created and fused. I don't have a big vocabulary, but i know enough to recognize a created word from Tagalog roots when I see one. It's easy to use the "hundreds of dialects" excuse, but please don't take us for fools. On the other hand, I think a lot of the criticism of GM Inosanto is from envy and nitpicking. I've rented his videos, and I think his skill is awesome. He has done a lot for the FMAs in the Western world, and I just wish he had made more of an effort to join with Filipinos back home, and some of this wouldn't have happened. A long time reader of martial arts magazines, he was one of my first heroes, if only just because he's a Filipino. I hope we can get past this and recognize him for the FMA hero that he is. Glenn Magpayo --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Bill S Lowery" To: Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:58:27 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Offense? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, >My offense intended,< In what way? Bill --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Offense? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hi Ray, > > >My offense intended,< > > In what way? Damn! Bad typo on my part. That was supposed to say, "No offense intended." Sorry. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:04:32 -0400 From: Musilat@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Inosanto Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all, Ok. Let's put this to rest. If not for Inosanto, we probably wouldn't even have a forum like this to whine on much less even know what Kali/Eskrima is. I'm sure he wrote the book based on the information made available to him. My Filipino friends have made it very clear to me that its difficult (if not impossible) to get a straight answer from a Filipino on the subject of FMA. Imagine how tough it was 30 years ago!! It's kinda funny that he's getting crap from the very same group of folks that may have stonewalled him in the past. He's a good man. Give him the proper credit/respect. Respects to all who have earned it, Steve Kohn --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Inosanto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Ok. Let's put this to rest. Agreed. > ... If not for Inosanto, we probably wouldn't even have > a forum like this to whine on much less even know what Kali/Eskrima is. Well, now again, let's not go overboard here. If it weren't for Mike Inay (RIP) we wouldn't have this forum. In fact Suro preceeded Guro I in the FMAs and even hepled a bit with his early FMA instruction. > He's a good man. Give him the proper credit/respect. Agreed. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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