Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 06:40:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #298 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. GM Nes Fernandez Style (John W. Nakihid) 2. studying FMA in Phi. (=?gb2312?B?uuog0qY=?=) 3. Holy Smokes!Leave the guy alone. (Catherine and Phil) 4. sorry Ray....... (David Eke) 5. Tabak Toyok (Mike aka Shugendo) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "John W. Nakihid" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:39:42 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] GM Nes Fernandez Style Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Jay de Leon I am glad to hear from you about your cousin Nes Fernandez. He was my first teacher in the Kali Arnis Escrima and he has a very unique approach to the art as a result of his training from several masters in Pangasinan. His style is simple and direct and totally based on a real combat situation and cannot be used in a sports competition. He is currently here in Baguio City with Police Major Manuel De Leon of Sphinx Karate. I am very grateful to him(Nes Fernandez) for the knowledge and skills he had taught me, but I am currently expanding my knowledge in the art of Kali Arnis Escrima through research and skill sharing with other practitioners from other discipline and with a number of Martial Artists, we have formed the Cordillera Arnis Federation here in Baguio City. Hope to hear more from you. Gumagalang John Nakihid Philippine Martial Arts Crusaders --__--__-- Message: 2 From: =?gb2312?B?uuog0qY=?= To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:50:31 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] studying FMA in Phi. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Friends, Greetings! I am a newbie.I would like to travel in Philippines for FMA study in the next year, and would like to stay as long as I could. Could someone kindly give me some info of good indigenous instructors , or any advice/experience on studying FMA in Philippines. Much Thanks in advance!//bow Lucian _________________________________________________________________ 与联机的朋友进行交流，请使用 MSN Messenger: http://messenger.microsoft.com/cn/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Catherine and Phil" To: Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:38:05 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Holy Smokes!Leave the guy alone. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fact: Dan Inosanto is probably the most written about Filipino Martial Artist in N America at this time and previously.People come from all over the world to study with him for a reason. As there are many people practicing FMA now and there are some extremely talented practioners, the fact remains that Dan Inosanto wrote the most widely accepted book on this topic ever written. For 15 to 20 years it was pretty much the textbook. The next book that was written has been accused of the same things as started this thread. Mark Wileys book has been criticized as inaccurate among other things less pleasant. Could this be that like many other styles, getting true information in this topic can be harder than pulling teeth out of a frog. Everybody has a different story about the same thing, unless you talk to these people who do this or those guys who do that. Don't worry they'll set you straight. Which came first the chicken or the egg? Organized religion or gut feeling and instinct? Balintawak or Doce Pares. Coke or Pepsi. HA! Guro Inosanto has been making good students for years. Marc Denny. Paul Vunak. Rick Tucci. Eric Knaus. Cass Magda. Erik Paulson. Just to name a few. I could go on. People I have personally met, Loki "Tricky Dog" Jorgensen, Stephan Kesting of grapplearts.com. Name me another Guro who has been this productive in bringing able competent martial artists into being. Name me another teacher with so many renowned students. Name me another teacher respected by so many instructors in so many other styles. Affiliated with so many other instructors who are in their own right "big names". Maybe he made some mistakes, so what! So he never went to the Phillipines, so what! Maybe it hurts, maybe he was broke! It seems to me he is a pretty humble private guy. Kind of quiet. I don't know him I could be wrong. I can guess he never meant to slap anyone in the face though. Leave him alone. Let's debate JKD or JKD concepts. Coke or Pepsi? Egg or chicken? Beef adobo or chicken adobo? Mac or windows? Whatever. Phil Hurcum --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:20:40 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] sorry Ray....... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't want to keep on this thread but as quite a few of the posts got personal I feel I have a right of reply. After this I'll leave it alone. >The openness that Mr. Eke says was omnipresent at a WEKAF event in Cebu in >1987 was neither present nor even possible in pre 1980 when the FMA book >was written. IMO, not true, both Diony and Cacoy Canete were actively promoting the indigenous FMA at the time of the books printing. Guro I even acknowledged this in the book. Remy Presas as early as 1970 was promoting Arnis in Japan. NARAPHIL and its predecessor the Cebu Escrima Association formed in 1975 tried to actively promote Escrima outside the Philippines. Yes, some styles were closed door but in the general most were open to promotion from outside. >Uncle Benjamin Tortal would not talk to him after he started to teach >Pekiti Tirsia to the public. In Edgar Sulite's book "Masters of Arnis, Kali & Eskrima" there are 8 pages dedicated to PT system of ARNIS. The GM is a Jerson "Nene" Tortal is that the Uncle Ben mentioned above. > ... please remember without Guro Inosanto, we would all be doing > something else. No, not really. Although, Guro I clearly has made significant contributions to the FMA in the USA (and other places) it's not necessarily so everywhere. My first introduction into the FMA in the early 80's was through Modern Arnis. My first arnis book was "Makabagong Arnis De Mano" by Remy Presas which I purchased on my first trip to the Philippines. Maybe other Aussies would dispute this but in Austalia Modern Arnis and Doce Pares were the predominant styles in the 80's. As others have mentioned it's a pretty big call to think that without Guro I FMA would not have been propagated by others in the west. >Its such a moot argument made by people who have spent >exactly ZERO time with the man. Pretty big assumption (and WRONG), in actual fact I've met him twice. Guro I has made multiple trips to Australia running seminars. Seems to be a great guy, who has innate ability to absorb techniques and then transfer knowledge. Even in the little time in a seminar it was clear he had great grip on the FMA. Whatever comments I made about inaccuracies and omissions with regards to the book it takes nothing away from the man. >Not to mention a lot of that area is not exactly friendly to Americans now >or then. Which area in the Philippines? Clearly you're speaking from personal experience! (NOT) There are plenty of Americans on this list that have traveled safely to The Philippines. Don't get me wrong the Philippines can be a violent and dangerous place but so can anywhere if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. A "culturally sensative" guy (his spelling) like Rob might have a bit of a problem though! >But don't then ascribe a moral high ground that may have never existed >because you don't speak for them or even every person of Filipino descent, >you speak only for yourself. How do you know that it never existed? I can take you to places in Cebu (that's in The Philippines) that if you call Arnis, Kali then you will need to back it up with something other than words. As other people have posted this is stuff that I have heard first hand, I'm just giving it voice. Maybe Rob needs to re-read some of the previous posts by some of the Pinoys on the list. They seem to support the point I was making (but were probably much more polite about it) >As to why he has never gone to the Philippines ask him...... I did :-) at one of the seminars I attended. I asked him politely (as is his due) maybe he even remembers. His answer, paraphrased was "I would like to one day" and I hope he does. Anyone who spends any length of time in The Philippines and is open to the experience (as he would be) will be enriched by it. As a History teacher he'd probably get more out of it than most. >....., don't assume he waits for others to come to him. Sorry, my point was badly worded. I didn't mean to imply that he waits for others to come to him. People do; however, come to him because of his high exposure within the MA community and there is nothing wrong with that. In all this, if people have missed the point in my threads I'll try to put it more clearly. There are people in The Philippines who have dedicated their lives to the propagation of the FMA. Like Guro I they are highly skilled and knowledgeable. Guro I's contribution to the FMA and MAs in general is highly documented. His contribution is widely acknowledged by all. Many of the old masters in The Philippines remain unacknowledged due to a lack of exposure outside the country. For those of us that have had the opportunity to train with some of these masters (and there are plenty on this list) we know that these people are also just as praiseworthy, just as skilled and just as knowledgeable. To acknowledge this takes away nothing from Guro I. For my part I've had my say, if I've pissed people off, use my email address to abuse me so that we don't have to subject others to it. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Mike aka Shugendo" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:24:09 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Tabak Toyok Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings all! Just wanted to check in with the other board members and get their perspective in regards to the tabak toyok. I've 'played' with them for years and have developed a training progression (similar to the whip and single stick) to teach them. My question is: do others teach them and what do you emphasize? Thanks and I look forward to your input! BTW - haven't we had this Inosanto thread about 100 times already? :) _______________________________________________ Michael A. Krivka http://www.martialartskoncepts.com Phone: 301/963-6520 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest