Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 21:04:04 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #306 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Tony Blauer (Marc Macyoung) 2. Labor Day (Ray Terry) 3. John Nakihid and GM Nes Fernandez (jay de leon) 4. Kelly S. Worden & IKF article (jay de leon) 5. Filipino Martial Tradition (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:47:22 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Tony Blauer Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From Marc Animal MacYoung >He appears to have a debate with other reality based martial artists (maybe Peyton Quinn ?) regarding who is stealing each other's ideas. No Peyton doesn't have a debate going on with Blauer. Quite frankly neither Peyton or I have the time -- or the inclination -- to bother with such petty antics. Each of us are up in the hills, living life, doing our own thing and not interested in playing "dojo wars." Simply stated the market is big enough for everyone. Blauer is, however, in the middle of a great many "conflicts" with other "reality based" instructors, that's their choice and their business. Have fun folks.... As for who "stole" what from whom the very idea is ridiculous. Bottomline, a shark is a shark. There are only so many ways that people who have seen it can describe it. After a while, the descriptions are going to start sounding the same. If they don't then someone is describing something else other than a shark. To claim that someone ripped you off because their description resembles yours is absurd, especially when those same people give credit without hesitation to the people that did influence them. "Let's see, long body, sharp teeth, long fins...yep, it's a shark." In short folks, nobody owns the TRUTH (tm) about self-defense because what is real is real and anybody can see it. What is more important is can the person who is teaching, teach effective information to keep students alive in case the poor sucker ends up in a live fire situation? As I often tell the people I teach "It ain't about me...it's about you and what you can do after you leave this classroom that will save your life in a s**tstorm" --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima), the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 07:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Labor Day Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Wishing all those in the US an unlabored Labor Day tomorrow. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 15:00:36 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] John Nakihid and GM Nes Fernandez Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Mr. John Nakihid: Thank you for the email. I apologize for the late reply; I was out of town. So that's where Kuya Nes has been hanging out--cool and beautiful Baguio City. I don't know if he mentioned that we had a grandfather, Jose de Leon (now deceased, a career military man who fought In WWII) who we used to stay with every time we visited Baguio City. He lived in Jungletown, and several of his children worked for BAL (Benguet Auto Lines). We called him Lolo Baguio, as opposed to all the Lolos in Pangasinan. You are indeed fortunate to have trained with a very knowledgeable martial artist and a good man in GM Nes Fernandez. Please give my regards to Kuya Nes, good luck with your own personal training and your new group, and I will look you up the next time I visit Pangasinan or Baguio City. P.S. To ED members. For those of you contemplating visiting the Philippines, Baguio City is the "summer capital of the Philippines" and a premier tourist destination known for its cool climate, mountain scenery and indigenous attractions. It is about 4-5 hours drive north of Manila, same direction as Angeles City, Pangasinan and Ilocos Norte. So if you want some workout as well, you should probably save John's contact info. Respectfully, Jay de Leon Rancho Santa Margarita, CA _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 15:19:34 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kelly S. Worden & IKF article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Worden: Thank you for the email. I apologize for the late reply; I was out of town. First, just a few clarifications: (1) You wrote "Sure didn't take long for the outsiders of Modern Arnis to drop their agenda motivated thoughts into the recent IKF Magazine." All I did was to write a letter to the editor expressing my views on a recent article. What does your sentence mean? Did I respond too quickly? Pray tell me what my agenda was other than expressing my opinions on what somebody wrote, which is the same thing you are doing? (2) After describing your own relationship with RP, you wrote "I doubt if Jay de Leon (JDL) and Remy Presas (RP) were 'that close'." But that was precisely my point, sir. RP and I were not complete strangers to each other. But we were not "that close" either. I described precisely the extent of our relationship, give or take a seminar. In fact, the last time I saw and talked to RP was in his Rocklin, CA seminar in 1997. I mentioned this fact in my original letter to IKF, which they edited out. So I was not part of the procession of inheritors at his deathbed asking for his final blessings. Does that diminish my credibility, or the admiration and feelings I had for RP? (3) You wrote "His link to NARAPHIL is an insult to RP." My mention of NARAPHIL was a point of reference, not a matter of pride. In fact, I became a member of NARAPHIL simply because my Grandmaster (GM), who was a NARAPHIL officer and tournament official, could not teach me unless I was (literally) a card-carrying member of the NARAPHIL. I even remember mailing photos so they could prepare my I.D. I have never met with or even known any other member of NARAPHIL other than my GM. I am well aware of the sordid side of NARAPHIL history. But it is preposterous to heap the sins of NARAPHIL or some elements of NARAPHIL on me or any other individual. By the way, at some point, my GM and I also became card-carrying members of offshoots of NARAPHIL, called "Arnis Phil." and "MAACOP" (I don't remember what the letters stood for). Shall I now gird my loins for battle against everybody who harbors a grudge against these two other organizations? (4) You wrote "I would be hardpressed to believe JDL didn't mean to disrespect everyone he indirectly buzzed around, 'be they loyalists, renegades or alphabet soup coalitions'." Well, yes and no. In plain English, if the shoe fits, wear it. If you are a self-anointed successor, then yes, shame on you. If not, then I have no reason and no desire to disrespect you. The terms "loyalists," "renegades" and "coalitions" were direct quotes from the author of the IKF article. Which now brings us to the heart of the matter. The other side of the coin is, I also paid tribute to whom I thought were the true successors of RP--the practitioners, guros and grandmasters who are teaching Modern Arnis in the spirit and tradition of RP. (See last two sentences of my letter to IKF). Of course I realize there are many worthy and true Modern Arnis teachers in the Philippines, here in the U.S. and probably in Europe as well. Of course I know of MARPPIO, the Presas family, Messrs. Dantes, Inocalla, Dagooc and their likes in RP, as well as in the U.S. and Europe. I salute them all. I think you missed a golden opportunity. Instead of launching a diatribe against me in the Digest, you could have introduced your group and how the members got together, gave background on the members, and informed Digest readers what your group is doing to unite, direct or otherwise inspire other Modern Arnis groups. Also as an example, I would have liked to know more about Mr. Dagooc, who I believe was a contemporary of my GM but whom I never met. In your first sentence, you referred to me as an "outsider to Modern Arnis." Until RP's death, my students and I considered ourselves part of the Modern Arnis family, more from sheer admiration and love of RP than stylistic affiliations. I know that's a stretch because of my limited relationship with RP. The day I learned of RP's death, I wept, put on my full Modern Arnis uniform (reserved for official occasions only) to the dojo, informed my students about the sad news, and dedicated the day's workouts to RP. And so I will close with my last piece of unsolicited advice. If you are indeed the true inheritor, or speak for the inheritor coalition, please take the high road and reach out for other "outsiders." Remember the original theme of the IKF article was about filling the void left by RP? I venture to guess that that's what Remy would have wanted. Good luck with your new coalition. Jay de Leon Rancho Santa Margarita, CA _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Filipino Martial Tradition Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Filipino Martial Tradition, by Pedro Reyes Rapid Journal Vol 4, No 1, 1999 Taichi Works Publications 458 Jaboneros St. Binondo Manila 1006 I hear that on the Internet, there is acrimonious debate on questions such as who is the arnisador whom Gran Maestro Antonio Ilustrisimo appointed as his successor, who should continue the line of Edgar Sulite, who is the real representative of Pekiti-Tersia? I can only shake my head in amused disbelief. To a traditional arnisador, such questions are non-questions. The controversies arise because some martial artists who know the Chinese or Japanese martial arts try to force the tradition of arnis to fit the molds of those styles. But the tradition of arnis is different. Arnis is a Military Art, not Civilian Legend asserts that monks and civilians developed Kung Fu and Karate. There are many variations to those legends. In one, monks hardened their hands so that they could chop wood for fire because they could not carry bladed instruments. They extended their discovery to develop external Kung Fu for self-defense. In Okinawa, civilians also hardened their hands and feet, and use agricultural implements to defend themselves against marauding Japanese soldiers. That is the origin of Karate, legend says, And Taoist monks developed internal Kung Fu to integrate mind and body. How about Arnis? Here, there are no records, there are legends. But we can make educated inferences. The first clue is the name of the art, Arnis de Mano. Arnis seems to be a corruption of the Spanish word "arnes", which means mail armor. Mail is flexible armor made of overlapping metal rings, loops of chain, or scales, such as those worn by European knights in the Middle Ages. Arnis de Mano thus literally means armor with the hands and alludes to the reputed ability of the arnisador to defend himself with his hands and alludes to the reputed ability of the arnisador to defend himself with his hands as though he had put on an armor of mail. Another clue to the military character of arnis is that arnisadores train with weapons before they train with bare hands. Why? No soldier goes to war with empty hands. He fights with weapons first, and uses his bare hands only as a last resort. In contrast, Kung Fu, Karate, Judo practitioners betray their civilian origins by starting with empty hands. Arnis Adapts to Civilian Weapons But when the Spaniards occupied the Philippines, they abolished the warrior class. They forbade the Filipinos from carrying their beloved spears, kampilans, and blowguns. They banned archery. But Filipinos could still carry the riding or whipping stick with which to drive their cows, carabaos and horses. They could walk around town with canes or walking sticks even if they were not elderly. Farmers could strap a utility bolo around their waists before stepping out of the house. Any farmer or townsman could conceal a dagger or a knife around his person. And of course, a man, or woman, always had his hands and feet. Arnisadores now concentrated their techniques around those five classes of weapons. They no longer practiced archery, used the blowgun, and they eventually forgot their techniques for those weapons. Of course, the arnisadores would also use other weapons if they were the only ones available, such as the hand scythe, the pestle, or the carrying pole. But they retained the military character of arnis. Arnisadores still began their training with weapons and the teaching remained impersonal. Arnis is Tribal, not Familial What do I mean by "impersonal?". The unit of ancient Filipino society is the barangay. A barangay is composed of several families which were not always related to one another. The number of dedicated warriors in a barangay was probably small. So every able-bodied man had to be able to defend the barangay. Thus arnis masters would teach any able-bodied man in the barangay regardless of the man's family. In contrast, ancient Chinese and Japanese masters considered their martial arts as family heirlooms, to be used to defend the family of to enhance its prestige. So they confined - or tried to confine - their instruction to members of their clan. For example: Formerly only members of the Ch'en family could learn Tai Chi Chuan until Yang Lu-ch'an broke the monopoly. Only the Takeda family and their retainers could learn Aiki-jutsu. At present, even the Kano family tries to keep control of judo even though instruction is not confined to the Kano family and is open to any one. In those styles, the titles of student, master, grandmaster, great grandmaster, and so on reflect those of the family, son, father, grandfather, great grandfather, etc. The master becomes the second father who can interfere in the most intimate details of the life of the student to an extent unknown to the arnisador. Each Arnis Master is Sui Generis Kung Fu students avidly seek geneological charts of their styles because that is how they establish their legitimacy. In figure 1, I have created a chart of the genesis of the Antonio Ilustrisimo style in imitation of the Chinese. (Notice that Gran Maestro Ilustrisimo has only his father as his teacher. In my conversations with him, he vehemently insisted that he learned only from his father, never from his famous uncle, Melecio Ilustrisimo, nor from Pedro Cortez, whose technique he considered inferior to his own.) But the classical arnisadores pay only scant attention to charts like this. For the classical arnis master stands in his own abilities. He is not a master because he has received a certificate from a school, or because he has been appointed successor by a grandmaster. He is sui generis. Arnisadores prefer teachers who shine by their own light, like the sun rather than planets that shine by the reflected light of their school or master. That is why arnisadores like Remy Presas and Edgar Sulite claim to have created their own styles, rather than to have inherited them. When a student first approaches a traditional master, the master may say, "Yes, I will teach you the little that I know." He would then demonstrate his abilities and if the student likes it, he would stay for more instruction. What the classical master will not say is, "Yes, I will teach you because I'm the 10th degree master of Rabid Dog Arnis" or "The grandmaster of Howling Devil Arnis appointed me as his successor." Such boasts are the product of a later, crasser, more commercial age. Incidentally, masters from the north are more apt to be self-depracating while masters from the south are more prone to boast. This is due to social convention and personal dynamics and has little to do with actual ability. But in a century of hard sell, this could be one reason why Arnis from the south is spreading throughout the world, while Arnis from the north remains in the shadows. A Student Becomes a Master But in that case, does an arnis student become a master? Does he promote himself? Strange as it may seem to a Chinese of to a Japanese stylist, the answer tin traditional Arnis is "yes". The traditional arnisador begins to teach when he feels he is ready to teach, not when his master tells him so. For the traditional master will never give him a teaching certificate, much less appoint him as his successor, no matter how able the student is. That for a simple reason. Once an arnisador starts to teach, he is open to life-and-death challenges. A master who gives a teaching certificate to a student, or appoints him as successor, effectively signs the death warrant for that student. No master likes that responsibility. (A Minor factor that may inhibit the master would be his loss of prestige should the student fail the challenge). Suppose the student wants to teach, but the master thinks he is not ready. The dynamics of Philippine society decides what the master would do. He is likely to remain silent, although in rare cases he might tell the student not to teach. He might also express his doubts to a few intimate friends, but those friends are not likely to pass these to his student. Thus the new master would go on teaching blissfully unaware of the misgivings of his teacher. There are arnisadores who have become famous masters without taking lessons. Pedro Walis of Iloilo was one; he claimed to have learned arnis simply by watching other masters practice and teach. Arnis Tradition is Open Certificates of proficiency, appointments of representatives of a style, selection of successors, are contemporary phenomena, products of masters who wish to commercialize their skills. Many of those masters have studied Japanese styles and they pattern their ranking after the Japanese; some even call their instructors "dans". For few contemporary students are willing to pay tuition, or put up money for a seminar without a visible token in return, be it a certificate of attendance, a grade diploma to be hung on a wall, or even just a membership card. Contemporary masters can provide those tokens with a free conscience because life-and-death challenges are illegal and are now rare. Is this the end of a classical tradition and the end of a new one? Perhaps. For unlike the Chinese or the Japanese, Arnis tradition is open. Arnis masters are not afraid. This is due to the military origin of Arnis. In war, one utilizes even alien techniques if they are effective. The first radical change in the nature of Arnis occurred when the Spanish abolished the warrior class and prohibited the use of their weapons. The Arnis masters reacted by concentrating their techniques on the weapons now legally available to civilians. These are the riding stick, the walking cane, the utility bolo, and the hand knife. At the same time, a branch of arnis that many aspire to learn but only a handful can master became Christianized. I refer to esoteric Arnis. The arnisadores now directed their attention to the Christian pantheon. Curiously, the arnisador sometimes found himself using the names of the old gods to address the gods of the Christians without losing the effectiveness of his oracion In many cases, the changes were not too traumatic. For example, the arnisadores simply moved the great days of initiation into the oraciones of the Moon Goddess to the days of lent and to All Souls Day. As for the celebrations of the Earth God - Christmas became one of them, leaving only the summer initiations without Christian equivalents. Incidentally, arnisadores prefer to offer themselves to the Goddess. A traditional practice, for example, is to drill during the nights of the moon to seek favor, protection and strength of the Great Mother. Next, the Spanish friars introduced the komedya and asked the arnisadores to choreograph the mock battles. Arnis masters responded by creating a new style, or branch of arnis, exhibition or theatrical arnis. Present day masters who coach cinematic actors are heirs to this branch. The third change occurred when promoters introduced sports tournaments. Sports Arnis was developed from competition without protection to one where the competitors protect themselves with armor. The rules for this new branch or arnis are still evolving, but already arnisadores have created techniques specially tuned to sports. The fourth change is the one we have been discussing: the awards of certificates of proficiency by commercial gymnasia. This is no longer classical arnis. Commercial Arnis? To some, that sounds derogatory, but need not be. Competition for students can improve quality, although it could propel arnis the wrong way among unscrupulous masters hungry for money. Some masters are caught in the transition to this "new tradition." Grandmaster Antonio Ilustrisimo believed that certificates were worthless, so that he did not rank his intimate disciples. Nevertheless, he cynically issued certificates when he needed money, or to silence disciples who pestered him for them And in the future? I would like to see arnis maestros with intelligence and guts enough to integrate modern gun fighting into arnis. Some arnisadores would like to re-introduce archery, spear throwing, and blowguns, but I consider that a backward step. People do not fight with bows and arrows, shields and spears, and blowguns anymore. They fight with guns. A Different Enlightenment If you were to challenge me to write in a few words the essence of Arnis, what would I say? Arnis is the search for one's unique self. Who am I? If you are an arnisador, you begin by imitating a teacher. Then you find that the only way you can master the techniques is to make them your own, adapting them to your own build, temperament, and reflexes. Now go back and forth between those two states, the conditioned and the unconditioned consciousness, until you realize that your self has always been and is always free. Then shout in exultant freedom. The martial artist who is Buddhist awakens the non-attached heart; the Taoist, the harmonious heart. The arnisador enjoys the free, creative unconditioned heart. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest