Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 09:15:07 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #312 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Eskrima in Rostock (Dieter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) 2. Re: Eskrima Teacher (Holger Junker) 3. Escrima Teacher (Bob Barnum) 4. Manila 1571-1898 (Ray Terry) 5. Twenty Hour Instructor Course (Zach Whitson) 6. Re: Eskrima Teacher (Terry Tippie) 7. eskrima teacher (Thorsten) 8. 20 hours of instruction= instructor? (Beungood@aol.com) 9. Pencak Silat in the Indonesian Archipelago (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 12:41:40 +0200 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Organization: Abanico Video Productions To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Eskrima in Rostock Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: M.KLAUS@jippii.de > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Eskrima Teacher > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hi, > > I am new to eskrima and to this list, and I have a question. > > I am a Judoka, and I want to open my school in Rostock in the former east of Germany. > I also want to offer something with sticks or sword. I got a offer to become a Eskrima teacher. > must pay about 500 Euro and I get 20 hours lesson, my equipment, and a certificate that allows > to be a Eskrima teacher and have my own school. The certificate is also by the only organisation > recognized by Phillipines government. > > Since I am new to Eskrima, please help me. Is this a fair offer? > Can I also teach Eskrima to children and from what age? > > Many thanks, > Michael. >> From: Ray Terry >> >> Well, let me ask you this... Would you have been ready to teach Judo after >> your first 20 hours of Judo training? >> >> May I ask what organization this is that is recognized by the Philippines gov? >> >> >> Comments from others??? Hi, Ray, you take the words right out of my mouth. It was exactly what I wanted to ask. I would have a rough guess who it would be but. But what style and organisation is it and who offered you this? Anyway, I got about a month ago the official appointment as the comissioner of Arnis Philippines for Germany. Arnis Philippines (ARPI) is acknowledged by the Philippine Olympic Committee as well as by the goverment as the official Arnis association. This organbisatiuon does not represent a style but many of the established styles are member of ARPI. Well, at least I can guarantee, that we, the "Deutscher Arnis Verband e.V." (DAV) are recognized by the goverment and I am VERY sure that NOBODY of our organisation offered such a nonsense. I don´t know and cannot speak about others organisations. Anyway, after 20 lessons, which would be about 2 - 3 months of normal training, a talented person would start to get ready for the first grading - the WHITE belt. This is not an especially high degree, but at least a start. Like in any martial art, one has to put in many hours of training and dedication to become good. One does not necessarily be a black belt - or equivalent - to teach, but some knowledge should be there. I think it is a fraud offer to pull money ouit of the pocket and making wrong claims. I will contact you in private e-mail, so one can discuss the posibilities of serious training. Regards Dieter Knüttel Datu of Modern Arnis ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de http://www.modern-arnis.de --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Holger Junker" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima Teacher Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:10:37 +0200 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everybody, Well Michael, as you want to open your own school you certainly have seen a lot of martial-arts-trainers. Has any of them had only 20 lessons before he trained you? Try and find a guy who has about 20 lessons experience and ask him to give you a lesson. During and after that analyze his training and how well he is doing his job. Also ask youself whether or not you would go there a second time. Consider a student of you asking to become a trainer after he has had 20 lessons from you. What would you say about that? I don't want to hurt anyone but I think the guy who offered you this certificate is not to be trusted. Aren't such people one reason why martial-arts often have had a bad reputation in the past with lots of prejudices about us and our doing?! If you are interested maybe I can help you to find an alternative to the offer we are discussing here (I am from Germany too, but from a different region). Holger Junker --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Bob Barnum" To: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:56:36 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Escrima Teacher Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Michael, First, I would like to commend your interest in FMA and the fact that you want to provide more for your students but with said, this is commercialism at its finest. There is no way you could teach (effectively) after 20 hrs of instruction. No, this is not a fair offer but it has nothing to do with the cost. They can give a piece of paper (or a hundred pieces of paper) and claim that you can teach but in the bottom line is you can't possibly know the intricacies of an art after 20 hrs. As a Martial Artist, you already have a title for someone who completes 20 hours of instruction - beginner or white belt. I don't care who the organization is, I equate this to a scam. I would look elsewhere for FMA instruction. Bob Barnum Pittsburgh, PA --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Manila 1571-1898 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net An interesting exhibition on Manila, The Western Orient, and other RP related historical documents. http://www.cedex.es/cehopu/expomanila/inicin.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Zach Whitson" To: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:32:57 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Twenty Hour Instructor Course Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A twenty hour Instructor Certification course for FMA? Why don't you "cut to the chase" and print up your own certificate. It will save you twenty hours of your time and 500 Euro. After all, your certificate will not be worth the paper it is written on regardless of the Government it is recognized by. If you are going to be a fraud why not go all the way? I have to wonder how many hours of training the "government recognized" course instructor has? Are you comfortable sending your students out into the world with the impression that they can actually defend themselves against a guy with a weapon? After your students complete a month of intense masterful instruction and you have nothing left to teach are they going to be instructors also? I can only make a comparison based on my own experience. Following hundreds of hours of instruction and thousands of hours of solo and partner practice, basically ten years of my life, I tested for and was promoted to instructor level. I hear there are some twenty hour ball room dancing instructor courses recognized by Fred Astaire himself. Check it out. Zach Whitson --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 07:41:09 -0700 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Terry Tippie Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima Teacher Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Over the years I have had some involvement in setting instructor standards. I would be sincerely interested in what specifically you are expected to master in 20 hours of training. That would qualify you to be a beginner in the eyes of most eskrimadores--unless you are extraordinarily talented as a fighter. Respectfully, Terry Tippie --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Thorsten" To: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:56:12 +0200 Subject: [Eskrima] eskrima teacher Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, i am alos from Germany and i am very interessted in getting infos about this "organisation". Sounds very strange to me.... To learn a stickfighting-system you don't need 20 hour, i think 10 are enough ;-) Greetings Thorsten www.NECOPA.de __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:49:50 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] 20 hours of instruction= instructor? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/5/02 6:03:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I am a Judoka, and I want to open my school in Rostock in the former east of > Germany. I also want to offer something with sticks or sword. I got a offer > to become a Eskrima teacher. I must pay about 500 Euro and I get 20 hours > lesson, my equipment, and a certificate that allows me to be a Eskrima > teacher and have my own school. Wow! a whole 20 hours of lessons? You'll turn out some great martial Artisits and technicians.. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Pencak Silat in the Indonesian Archipelago Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pencak Silat in the Indonesian Archipelago by O'ong Maryono Many of the readers may wonder what pencak silat actually is. In the Philippines, with its many martial arts forms, pencak silat is still relatively unknown. And yet, pencak silat is part of our common Malay culture which covers Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei Darussalam, the Philippines and some small islands close to them. In all these countries pencak silat can be found although its name may vary. In Malaysia, people talks of "bersilat" to indicate their self-defense techniques comprising more than 260 different styles. The same term is also used in Singapore and in South Thailand, while in Brunei Darussalam and the Southern Philippines people use the shortest version of "silat". In other Philippine regions, the term "pasilat" is also used. According to Mark Wiley, pencak silat entered the Philippines from Riau and together with the Chinese martial art of Kuntao influenced the development of "Kali", which he and other martial arts experts consider the "mother art of the Philippines" or the source of all martial arts in the country. In my country, Indonesia, the official name used to indicate more than 800 martial arts schools and styles spread across more than 13,000 islands is "pencak silat". However, this is actually a compound name consisting of two terms used in different regions. The word "pencak" and its dialectic derivatives such as "penca" (West Java) and "mancak" (Madura and Bali) is commonly used in Java, Madura and Bali, whereas the term "silat" or "silek" is used in Sumatra. The ambition to unify all these different cultural expressions in a common terminology as part of declaring Indonesia's unity and independence from colonial power, was first expressed in 1948 with the establishment of the Ikatan Pencak Silat Indonesia (Indonesian Pencak Silat Association, IPSI). However, it could only be realized in 1973 when representatives from different schools and styles finally formally agreed to the use of "pencak silat" in official discourse, albeit original terms are still widely used at the local level. The richness of terms reflects a wide diversity in styles and techniques across the regions due to the fact that pencak silat has been developed by different masters who have created their own style according to their preferences and to the physical environment and social-cultural context in which they live. Lets take as example West Java, Central Java and West Sumatra. West Java is inhabited by a specific ethnic group with specific cultural and social norms. For them, pencak silat is part of their way of life or as they say is "the blood in their body". In their language they say "penca" or "menpo" (from "maen poho', which literally means play with trickery) to indicate their main four styles Cimande, Cikalong, Timbangan, and Cikaret and all the schools and techniques which have derived from them. The Sundanese people have always utilized penca/mempo' for self-defense and recreation, and only recently have started to use it as a sport in national and regional competitions. In its self-defense form, using hands fighting techniques combined with a series of characteristic footsteps such as langka sigzag (zigzag step), langka tilu (triangular step), langka opat (quadrangular step) and langka lam alip, penca can be very dangerous. Therefore it is kept secret and, especially its magic (tenaga dalam or inner power) component is only taught in phases to selected students. Penca as art (penca ibing) has been a source of inspiration for traditional Sundanese dances such as Jaepongan, Ketu'tilu', Dombret, and Cikeruhan and actually it resembles dance in its use of music instruments. These instruments, called "pencak drummers" (gendang penca), are devoted exclusively to penca performances and consist of two sets of drummers (gendang anak dan kulantir), a trumpet (tetet) and a gong. Pencak performances also use standard music rhythms such as tepak dua, tepak tilu, tepak dungdung, golempang and paleredan. Penca as art is not considered dangerous and can be openly shown to everyone. From generation to generation until today, penca performances animate wedding parties, rituals of circumcision, celebrations of the rice harvest and all kind of national festivities. Differently from West Java, in Central Java, Javanese people have traditionally used pencak only for self-defense and are not inclined to show it in public. Furthermore, the spiritual aspect (kebatinan) is much more dominant. This is probably related to the fact that pencak silat in Central Java developed from the Sultanate of Yogyakarta and later expanded to surrounding neighborhoods after the kingdoms lost their political role in the XV and XVI centuries. In the keraton (Sultan's palace) pencak silat had undergone a transformation from pure martial art to be used in combat, to an elaborate form of spiritual and humanistic education. In this later form it spread outside the keraton walls where it developed the use of self-defense techniques to reach spiritual awareness as well as the use of inner powers to attain supernatural physical strengths. Again pencak silat in West Sumatra is a different cultural expression in both its forms and meaning. Similarly to West Java, in West Sumatra a distinction is made between self-defense, called sile' or silat, and the related art version called pencak which has influenced many traditional dances such as Sewah, Alo Ambek and Gelombang. The ethnic group of Minangkabau who lives around the Merapi Mountain in West Sumatra regard silat as their village's heirloom (pusaka anak nagari) which is meant for the youth to defend themselves while traveling ashore and it is not intended for outsiders. Instead, pencak as a dance is accessible to everybody. In this region almost every village (nagari) has a different style (aliran) of silat as reflected by the many names, some of which refer to the founders (like Silat Tuanku Ulakan, Silat Pakik Rabun, Silat Malin Marajo) and some to the original locations where the style was developed (Silat Kumango, Silat Lintau, Silat Starlak, Silat Pauh, Silat Painan, Silat Sungai Patai and Silat Fort de Kock). These styles can be classified into two main groups according to the foot-stands (kuda-kuda) they use. In the coastal area, silat styles use a very low kuda-kuda and prefer hand techniques whereas in the mountain area the kuda-kuda is higher and foot techniques are dominant. This is due to the different environments in which silat has developed. On the sand, a high kuda-kuda would not be stable and in the mountain, where the ground is oblique and uneven, a low kuda-kuda would be impossible to practice. As a Minangkabau proverb says: "Alam takambang menjadi guru" (the surrounding nature is our teacher). These styles and regional diversities are only few arbitrary examples to show what a rich cultural phenomena pencak silat is in Indonesia. Much more needs to be said about its origin, history, techniques and social role, but this will be for another time. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest