Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:01:50 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #363 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Empty hand defence (Dexter.Labonog@wcom.Com) 2. Looking for Instructors in Makati or Paranaque (Elrik Jundis) 3. Picking & Enganyo (Elrik Jundis) 4. Pinoy Boxing (krider2068@hotmail.com) 5. Re: Picking (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Empty hand defence (Ray Terry) 7. Empty hand defence (Bart Hubbard) 8. open hand defense against kicks (Montilla Rafael) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:39:53 -0700 From: Dexter.Labonog@wcom.Com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Empty hand defence Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If you are referring to applications of Pilipino martial arts then you should 1st utilize what you have been taught in your basic foundation, meaning apply the weapons concept in the empty hands perspective, if you find in your foundation a lack or gap of techniques addressing this low zone of attack then it is time to cross train. I'm sure a lot of Eskrimadors or Arnisadors on this list will agree that a person who attempts to use kicks against a experienced FMA practitioner will be more cautious next time, if there is a next time. Guro Dex http://www.bahalana.com Message: 1 From: "Nigel + Karen" To: "Eskrima Digest" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:00:08 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] Empty hand defence Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just curious how other styles defend against kicks when empty handed. We use a simultaneous block and punch to the knee/leg (even against low kicks), which requires recognising the kick early on. We use foot checking and shin blocks as well, but I was wondering what other ways other people use to deal with kicks. Also if anyone has any specific drills for recognising/reacting to kicks, I'd be interested to hear about it. Thanks Nigel Black Eagle Eskrima, Australia --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Elrik Jundis" To: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:12:46 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Looking for Instructors in Makati or Paranaque Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A contact of mine is looking for instruction in either Makati or Paranaque. I am looking for any instructors in these areas but particularly the Pekiti Tirsia folks. Thanks in advance for your replies. Thanks, Elrik G. Jundis Guro/Director School of Pilipino Mastery Arts (415) 601-2735 elrik.jundis@pilipinoma.com http://www.pilipinoma.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Elrik Jundis" To: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:12:49 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Picking & Enganyo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net So far I've only heard of Picking in Serrada Escrima. The Angel Cabales phrase that sums it up is "yah, I'm gonna pick him... pick where I'm going to hit him". It came from the confidence of knowing he could hit his opponents at will. I think of Picking as an attitude and fighting strategy. The idea was to make your opponent attack/defend the way you wanted them to: to set them up. This was usually done by attacking- forcing your opponent to defend or counterattack. When done at a medio or corto range only a limited amount of reactions are common so it becomes easier stay a beat ahead of your opponent. It is setting up your opponent with timing and spatial relationships so they are in the perfect place for your attack. This is similar to the Enganyo game used by Kali Ilustrisimo players. One difference is Serrada players more often play to open up a specific "picked" target. KI players just want to open you up; they don't care where they hit you, as long as it takes you out. Serrada has a more explosive feel to it's attacks, while KI is more fluid. Tommy Tang (the Top student under Tony Diego) is an exception to this rule. Tommy and his guys pack a lot of power in their hits. Other KI folks tend to let the blade do the work. In the Angels Disciples curriculum these drills are taught at the Advance Level in Serrada, where the attacker learns to set up the defender for counter attack. At the Datu (What Angel called his Master level techniques) level of training the focus is on reversing or counterattacking the "pick". Intention, focus, being calm & present are all key aspects of these drills. It is definitely a mental and ontological type of training. Without the right focus it degrades into something like "Counter for Counter" drills or it becomes flowery with no power. I am curious if other Serrada instructors still teach it this way or if they ever did. Any input from the Inayan, SLD, or other folks would be appreciated. I am also curios to how a more applied system like DBMA would train this or if you think it's even important. I've seen a parallel in the Pekiti-Tirsia Suigidas. I don't know if they train it with same type of intent. If they do that would be interesting because I think Suigidas happen fairly early in their training. Any of the Pekiti instructors care to comment? Elrik G. Jundis Guro/Director School of Pilipino Mastery Arts (415) 601-2735 elrik.jundis@pilipinoma.com http://www.pilipinoma.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: To: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:25:05 +0200 Subject: [Eskrima] Pinoy Boxing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, are there any video tapes available about pinoy boxing, except the "Great Era..." tape? Greetings Oliver --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Picking To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So far I've only heard of Picking in Serrada Escrima. The Angel Cabales > phrase that sums it up is "yah, I'm gonna pick him... pick where I'm going > to hit him". It came from the confidence of knowing he could hit his > opponents at will. I've also heard Gm Gilbert Tenio use the term wrt his Decuerdas. The question was asked as several pinoy friends were postulating that perhaps this term "picking" was more of an misunderstanding of the word used because of the manong's accent. e.g. the infamous example of "the swan block". A manong says to the student, you must learn "this one block" and the student thinks he is learning "the swan block", thus begins a new term... :) I'd have to check again with Manong Al, but I don't recall hearing that Angel used the term picking early on. Yet you clearly see him employing and teaching it in the early films of him in action. ??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Empty hand defence To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Just curious how other styles defend against kicks when empty handed. We use > a simultaneous block and punch to the knee/leg (even against low kicks), > which requires recognising the kick early on. We use foot checking and shin > blocks as well, but I was wondering what other ways other people use to deal > with kicks. Also if anyone has any specific drills for recognising/reacting > to kicks, I'd be interested to hear about it. The more kicks you see and train against the more likely you will be able to pick up on the motion. Great fun witnessing someone experience a back spin kick for the first time or two. They've been hit or the kick pulled over their head before they even realize what has happened. Move inside the power curve of the kick. Jam it. Or angle away from the kick. Work against a good kicker for a few training sessions and you will be able see them coming a lot better. Recalling a full contact stick fight... The stick fight was rather quickly ended by a single front kick to the opponent's solar plexus. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:02:56 -0400 From: "Bart Hubbard" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Empty hand defence Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Nigel + Karen, In my opinion there are a lot of good ways to defend against kicks but they depend mainly on range. To give a rough description: If you are touching the person, like in corto range, if you can control one of the opponent's arms, then you can control their balance and decrease the strength of the kick just by pulling or pushing them to throw off their balance. You could stop the kick from even getting close to the power phase by attacking their balance. Afterwards you'd follow up with some quick strikes. If you're in medio range then you could probably do that block that you described, the simultaneous block/punch. But with the punch you move into corto and can apply the corto principles. Also in medio or corto range the kick will most likely be low and I don't know how effective a hand block would be as it would expose the face. The leg blocks would work best. If they're kicking high and intending to hit you with their foot, most likely they've backed out into larga or long range. But with the low kicks you would probably want to deflect it or jam it once you recognized the attack as a kick. And then move in use techniques in accordance with the corto range. If you're in larga range then you would just dodge kicks or pass them in an effort to get closer or just to take off running. I don't think the systems vary much in the responses if they even work with that type of situation, because they all have to follow the principles dictated by the range. Of course if you have a stick or a weapon you could just hit the foot or leg with your stick and move on to other targets. I train in Doce Pares and although empty hand defenses to kicks are not a mainstay of our training, that's the interpretation that I've gotten. Bart Hubbard --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:27:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Montilla Rafael To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] open hand defense against kicks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, i am a filipino in Manila and I have studied under Topher Ricketts, Tony Diego and Tatang Illustrisimo under the Bakbakan Intl. group. This is my first post. In my small experience in arnis and kali; I have found the best empty hand defense is avoiding the kick by footwork and changing your angle. I recently totally sprained my hand doing a block/strike for a thai kick to my ribs. It should have been a dodge but my feet were lazy. The bones of the hand just can't beat a shin. Try to avoid force to force defence. Non-empty hand the best for me is a jam using your lead foot or just a plain premeptive strike or slash. salubong. Regards. Rafael __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest