Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 03:01:51 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #370 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Dogs (Ray Terry) 2. comments on Kuntao (Christian.Farinetto@gmx.de) 3. Interesting site (Richard KILLICK) 4. Dumog and pamislit? (meijin) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 13:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Dogs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Why Dogs Wag Their Tails Visayan A rich man in a certain town once owned a dog and a cat, both of which were very useful to him. The dog had served his master for many years and had became so old that he had lost his teeth and was unable to fight any more, but he was a good guide and companion to the cat who was strong and cunning. The master had a daughter who was attending school at a convent some distance from home, and very often he sent the dog and the cat with presents to the girl. One day he called the faithful animals and bade them carry a magic ring to his daughter. "You are strong and brave," he said to the cat. "You may carry the ring, but you must be careful not to drop it." And to the dog he said: "You must accompany the cat to guide her and keep her from harm." The promised to do their best, and started out. All went well until they came to a river. As there was neither bridge nor boat, there was a way to cross but to swim. "Let me take the magic ring," said the dog as they were about to plunge into the water. "Oh, no," replied the cat, "the master gave it to me to carry." "But you cannot swim well," argued the dog. "I am strong and can tale good care of it." But the cat refused to give up the ring until finally the dog threatened to kill her, and then she reluctantly gave it to him. The river was wide and the water so swift that they grew very tired, and just before they reached the opposite bank the dog dropped the ring. They searched carefully, but could not find it anywhere and after a while they turned back to tell their master of the sad loss. Just before reaching the house, however, the dog was so overcome with fear that he turned and ran away and never was seen again. The cat went on alone, and when the master saw her coming he called out to know why she had returned so soon and what had became of her companion. the poor cat was frightened, but as well as she could she explained how the ring had been lost and how the dog had run away. On hearing her story the master was very angry, and commanded that all his people should search for the dog, and that it should be punished by having its tail cut off. He also ordered that all the dogs in the world should join in the search, and ever since when one dog meets another he says: "Are you the old dog that lost the magic ring? If so, your tail must be cut off." Then immediately each shows his teeth and wags his tail to prove that he is not the guilty one. Since then, too, cats have been afraid of water and will not swim across a river if they can avoid it. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:51:58 +0100 (MET) From: Christian.Farinetto@gmx.de To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] comments on Kuntao Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear all, First of all forgive me for my English, I am French. I am not a scholar of (philippino?) muslim culture but due to my exposure to phil-muslims and to some degree to their martial arts I disagree with some points of the folllowing text. > The Roots of Kuntao > by Mark Wiley > Although kuntao is extant through Indonesia and Malaysia, > it has had no noticeable effect or influence on their indigenous martial > arts of silat. In malaysia there are silat systems called "Silat Kuntau", Kweetang Mustika silat is a form of silat from Java with a large Kuntao influence... On the contrary, as kuntao was so secretly guarded by the > Chinese (as it remains even to this day), it was more likely that silat > had at least a small influence on any given number of kuntao styles. > Although perhaps not knowingly sharing their knowledge, the pesilat > (silat practitioners) may have inadvertently aided the further > development of kuntao in Indonesia and malaysia through their open and > very public displays and demonstrations of their art. Kuntao was brought > to these islands by Chinese masters and continue to be taught only to > Chinese students. Although there are some non-Chinese exponents of kuntao > in Indonesia and Malaysia, they are the exception rather than the rule. > > During the Sri Visayan Empire (1006-1365), the art of kuntao was > transplanted to the southern Philippine island of Mindanao. In its > Philippine form, kuntao was primarily the art of the royal families > (maharlika). This exclusive training facilitated the royalty's control > over their slaves (alipin). However, with the spread of Christianity and > the relative isolation of the Muslim Filipinos, much of the culture > surrounding kuntao has been lost over time. >From my philippino muslim sources the art appeared in the Sulu archipellago or Basilan later in 16-17th century and was introduced by a chinese merchant. Concerning culture, Kuntao is still displayed (as is silat) during weddings and ceremonies in the Sulu, Basilan, Tawi-Tawi area, and Mindanao. Philippino muslims take great pride in their martial arts but are reluctant to show it to christian philippinos (actually many of them don't think they are philippino) and foreigners . One of my friends from Tawi-Tawi denied for three years that he practiced martial arts, he told me afterwards that he was practicing Kuntao for more than 30 years.... Concerning the royalty claim I express some doubts, I rather think that chinese merchants intermarried with locals, maybe changed religion, and therefore introduced the art to the local population. Many Tausug people have chinese traits (actually philippinos think my wife is chinese), and Sulu was a large center of trade with China where goods from Borneo and Mindanao were sent to the celestial empire, therefore the large (former) chinese presence, (english, french, dutch were also present in the 18-19th century for slave trade and commerce with China). What did remain, however, > were the extremely effective combat methods the art was known and feared > for. So deadly are some of the kuntao techniques that the Indonesian > government had outlawed the practice of the art in even this century for > fear of revolution. kuntao techniques are deadly so are silat techniques therefore why wasn't silat outlawed? I think it was rather to supress the Chinese culture after the massacre of the communists, poor famworkers and Chinese in Indonesia organised by the army in the 70's ( more than one million?). Teaching in Chinese and displaying chinese culture was forbiden, many chinese even adopted malay names and converted to christianism. > Kuntao techniques are characterized by many things such as tearing and > clawing actions, hard blocking methods, destructive elbow strikes, > narrow, low stances and postures, both hard and soft. Kuntao principles > adhere to a generally circular pattern of motion rather than linear > attacks and defenses. Popular in Indonesia is the Shantung Black Tiger > system, in Malaysia one will find the Phoenix Eye Fist style, and in the > Philippines, Ngo Cho Kun. Although each of these countries' expressions > of kuntao evolved from the same Chinese source, they have been altered > incidental to time and cultural influence. > >From what I know there are four types of "Kuntao" in the Philippines, and linear (triangular) patterns are present. -Chinese with Philippino influence (exple: Kun Tat Tao from Cebu) , no phil-muslim influence, and they seldom call it Kuntao. -Kuntao (practiced by phil muslims, silat players say it is closer to Kung Fu than Silat). -Kuntao Silat ( practiced by phil muslims70% silat, 30% Kung Fu). -Maharlika Kuntaw (the form most known to christian philippinos and foreigners). Real phil-muslim Kuntao (and Kuntao silat) is slowly disapearing, the purest forms can still be found practiced by old men in the small isllands of the far south (Tawi-Tawi,....) and Borneo. The government took step to preserve this element culture and there is a sixth months(!!!) program to train Kuntao teachers at University of Marawi city (in Mindanao). Dr. Christian Farinetto -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Richard KILLICK" To: Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:15:38 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Interesting site Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I found this nice site with some interesting articles on self defence, knife fighting etc whilst looking for something else. It seems that a hundred years ago they have similar self defence problems to us. Take a look. http://www.savateaustralia.com/ Regards Richard Killick --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "meijin" To: "eskrima" Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 13:21:00 -0600 Organization: Budo Geek Productions Subject: [Eskrima] Dumog and pamislit? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all, new subscriber here. I guess I should briefly introduce myself prior to throwing out my first question. I have been involved in the martial arts for over 25 years and have been a student of Modern Arnis for much less than that. I have not done much training since the passing of Remy Presas, but hope to change that soon. I currently reside in the state of TX and run a web based discussion forum on the topic of vital or pressure points located at http://budogeeks.tzo.com/phpbb. Which leads me to my question: While doing some web searches, I came across a page that was describing the Filipino art of Dumog (Haribon Dumog) and it mentioned "pamislit" which they described as methods of attacking pressure points and/or nerves. As someone who has a keen interest in this area, I was wondering if there is anyone on the list that has been trained in this method that would like to discuss it? Any other websites you may know of? I could not find much information at all. Anything in print? Anything at all.... Thanks for your time and allowing me to participate! Mike ======================================================================== "I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him." ----Mark Twain --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest