Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:05:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #376 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Dai Po Chin (S. H. WEE) 2. Reply on Kuntao (S. H. WEE) 3. Kalis Ilustrisimo Angles? (Jamie Hutchins) 4. Re: Dai Po Chin (Ray Terry) 5. Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Vol 9 #374 "FMA's of only injuring to a degree" (Francis Serrano) 6. (no subject) (ken jo) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:53:10 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Dai Po Chin Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Do you have the Chinese characters for the form? I might be able to help. S.H. Wee > From: Ray Terry > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:42:08 -0800 (PST) > Subject: [Eskrima] Dai Po Chin ? > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I'm looking for the form (kata) Dai Po Chin (apparently Dai Fan Chie in > Cantonese and Da Fan Che in Mandarin). It is suspected that this is the > ancestor to the karate form Naihanchi (aka Naifanchi, Naihanji, Tekki, > Chulgi). > > Might this form be part of Ngo Cho Kun? Or elsewhere??? > > Any help is appreciated. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:26:30 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Reply on Kuntao Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:17:33 +0100 (MET) > From: Christian.Farinetto@gmx.de > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Reply on Kuntao > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > there seem to me to be > some large inflluence form internal chinese martial arts (Tai-Chi-Chuan, > Bagua, Hsing-I...). There are both waijia (external) and neijia (internal) Kuntao, apart from the little known family-styles, the neijia are outright Taichi or Bagua, not influenced by them (They practise the same forms). However, either the versions we've come to known have been sterilised or these Kuntao versions improved after various real life applications (Those early Chinese Christian pilgrims survived the failed Taiping revolutions, and the later comers have to survive in a foregn countries full of unfriendly tribes and headhunters). The way they executed the techniques are different, less graceful but more deadly. > There is a lot of conditioning involved (I was told that a > Philippino expert > in Kota Kinabalu throws sand to the face of his disciples and ask them to > parry his punches afterwards to test them) , but the techniques > seem also to > be very subtle. More than 60% of the training, I would say, involved various form of conditioning and boring drills. In fact, you learn nothing for the first two years except conditioning and basic drills. When I was taught Ng Cho Kun by my late grandfather (never like the trainings then and never finish, only start to be interested in MA when I was in colledge and now a Taekwondo and Hapkido person. How I wish I could go back and train from my grandpa), we spend hours doing various stances, banging our limbs against each other, slapping bean bags with palms and lots of Dit Da Jows. He will hit various part of my body with long tube of sands or get a few kids and hit me with rattans tied in bundles, I will have to try to block and dodge the attacks. At the same time, you learn how to shift your body subtlely against the strikes to deflect it or lessen the pain. Though he only managed to train me for about two years, but the benefits of these trainings become apparent when I took out Taekwondo later. I notice that it was harder for my opponents to penetrate my defense, and they have problems sparring with me without using shin and arm guards. Apart from slightly tougher limbs, I tend to block with elbows, fists and knife-hands targeting their pressure points in such a way that it became very painful experience for them. > Actually Malaysia is a very good place to study chinese martial > arts (if one > is accepted as a student). They seem to have kept the old styles > (and even > made them more deadly), I recently read that they were still practicing > Wu-Chi (the so called ancestor of Yang Taichi) in Kuala Trengannu... > > By the way I wonder if you saw some Philippino Kuntao experts in Borneo, > some of them migrated to Sabah for different reasons. There are large number of Philipino settlements in Borneo, especially Sabah. However, there are still some form of distrust among various races and most these arts are kept underground. Most of the local silat styles will only accept a muslim or a Malay as a student and likewise the Chinese, they are only taught to Chinese and in some cases, only to their own clan or dialect group. Regards, S. H. Wee > In the arts, > regards, > > Dr. Christian Farinetto. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Jamie Hutchins To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:38:31 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kalis Ilustrisimo Angles? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I've been reading through some notes that I made at a seminar a while back in which various 5 count striking patterns were demonstrated. The first was 1-5 of the Inosanto Lacoste Kali (ILK - which is what I practice). According to my notes the second pattern (which correspond to the angles 1, 4, 3, 2, 5) was described as being from the Ilustrisimo system. Not trusting my ability to recall after the event I have checked this out in the recent book "The Secrets of Kalis Ilustrisimo" by Antonio Diego and Christopher Ricketts. Anyway in the section regarding angles of attack there is a quick reference list which confirms that the first 5 strikes in Kalis Ilustrisimo (KI) are the same as ILK angles 1, 4, 3, 2, 5. However if you turn the page and look at the photos and descriptions it seems that angles 2 and 3 in KI are actually diagonal hits to the ribs/midsection and not horizontal i.e. the two descriptions seem to contradict each other. So, knowing that I am coming across as being way too anal for my own good, I wondered do any ED members practice KI and would there care to put me straight on this? I realize its only a small difference - does it make much difference in your opinion? Thanks, Jamie --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Dai Po Chin To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:15:14 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Do you have the Chinese characters for the form? I might be able to help. > Sorry, no. Am just researching Naihanchi and understand that this form from southern China may be its forerunner. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:10:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: "Francis Serrano" To: Subject: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Vol 9 #374 "FMA's of only injuring to a degree" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Kenjo, As FMA practioners and in any Martial Arts trainning it is only there to defend yourself. Now in any trainning there are the teachings of how to put a threat down permantly. But that is only as a last resort. Even people with Guns just because they pull a gun out does not mean they will use it to kill although possible. But with trainning a well trainned person with a gun can use it just to incapacitate his or her attacker but not kill them. Same goes with a knife. In my trainning we are taught that an atacker attempts to assert their control to you but as a martial artist we are taught not to let them take control, and with that control i can control myself any weapon i yield. If you cannot control your own body nor weapon than you are trully lost. Francis [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif] --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:34:46 -0800 (PST) From: ken jo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "..Any sort of mandate that says "once the balisong is open, someone must die!" is nonsense. Most balisong wielding people don't even have any knife training. And FMA is as I see it, a martial art of survival and practicality. In some situations a brandish can end the problem and then there's no need to go further. In your system, if the opponent backs down, do you still have to kill him? If so then how many of your guys are in jail? Like I said before FMA is if nothing else, practical.. Bart Hubbard" Bart: believe it or not, there is a school of thought which advocates that "once a balisong is opened, somebody is bound to die" (just like when somebody draws a gun, there is a big possibility that the intent of the person drawing that gun is to kill) that is why i am currently studying the "calibrated response" strategy.. ..you are right, most balisong-wielding people don't have any knife training, that's why almost always, in balisong related incidents somebody dies because the intent there is to kill..and you are also right that FMAs are arts of survival and practicality.. ..however i have to disagree that a mere brandish of a balisong can end a problem, in fact this action might even antagonize an opponent..once you brandish a balisong, things go to another level.. ..and to answer your questions - if during a fight an opponent backs down and you have the opportunity to do so, you "finish the job" (however which way you want to finish it, to kill or to maime or to kiss and make up, whatever, that's your problem), because once that opponent recovers, he will come after you again.. if you don't have the opportunity to "finish the job", then run and always put your guard up everyday because somebody is out there looking for the chance to even things up.. ..fortunately, with our current philosophy nobody is in jail YET (we are constantly considering this possibility EVERYDAY, nakakapraning nga e), our students don't want to be involved in a fight because they know the consequences of what's going to happen (hospital o sementeryo lang ang pwedeng mangyari pag napa-away kami) - we are if nothing else "practical" - that's why we don't open or show our balisongs except when we are ready to die and ready to kill.. that's why i'm studying the possibility of a "calibrated response".. kenjo ps some food for thought - have you noticed that most FMAs practice multiple hits? put a bolo or a balisong in place of that stick or dos puntas but don't forget the long hours of conditioning of reflexes.. now, imagine that eskrimador in a fight.. the possibilities.. nakakatakot no? :-) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? 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