Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:46:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #379 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. legal use of force (mark) 2. Ngo Cho Kung Fu (Christian Farinetto) 3. Seminar Reminder (Bakbakan@aol.com) 4. Modern Arnis Seminar (Dan McConnell) 5. Brandishing knives/guns and the use of a closed folder (Brandon) 6. Reactions to Armed Encounters (Buz Grover) 7. Kick Destructions (Khalkee@netscape.net) 8. Re: Reactions to Armed Encounters (Ray Terry) 9. Bacon & Villasin ?? (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "mark" To: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:25:20 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] legal use of force Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Any valid answer to questions on use of force must be given by a competent lawyer working in your jurisdiction, the answer will only be valid for the specific person and situation the lawyer was consulted about. That said, two points should be made. First when any weapon is brought out in a confrontation there must be a very clear plan of action. If the goal assert control or promote compliance, then what is the follow up when the subject complies,what is the option if the subject does not? If there is any doubt about the plan do not draw a weapon. Second, there was a mention in a previous post of using firearms as something less than a lethal weapon. This is a bad idea. One of my old firearms instructors taught that as police officers we shot to stop not to kill, but he always added that handguns only reliably stop people in two ways by lowering their blood pressure below functioning levelsor by stop the central nervous system, both are generally fatal. Anything less is a lucky accident. I suspect this is probably also true with bladed weapons. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:00:24 +0100 (MET) From: Christian Farinetto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Ngo Cho Kung Fu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear all. Many members of the oversea chinese community (Malaysia, Philippines, Australia...) speak of Ngo Cho( or Chu?) Kung Fu. It seems quite interesting and combat oriented. I know that they practice it in Binondo (Manila's Chinatown) but was never able to see it. Does somebody have some informations on this art? Best Regards, Dr. Farinetto -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Bakbakan@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:31:47 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net CC: JWINTER54@aol.com Subject: [Eskrima] Seminar Reminder Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net REMINDER: Master Reynaldo S. Galang of Bakbakan International and author of "Complete Sinawali" is conducting a seminar in Philadelphia, PA. on November 16th. Topics include: Drills and applications of Bakbakan Kali Ilustrisimo beginning with Solo Baston, Doble Baston, Espada y Daga and Tulisan Knife Fighting concepts. Time permitting, Master Rey will also conduct an overview of the art of HAGIBIS. The 4-hour seminar will be held at Extreme Martial Arts, 1200 Callowhill, Philadelphia PA 19123 from 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm. Pre-registration fee is $60 and $75 for on-site/walk-ins. Pre-registration is encouraged so that the course material and certificate can be properly prepared for each participant. A Certificate of Participation will be awarded to all participants. LOCAL Contact: Jim Winterbottom at tel: (215) 752-2125; email: JWINTER54@aol.com Yours in the Arts, Guro John G. Jacobo BAKBAKAN International --__--__-- Message: 4 From: mccfamily@plexis.net (Dan McConnell) To: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:03:22 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Modern Arnis Seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, Modern Arnis of Ohio will host a modern arnis seminar on Nov. 16, 2002 at the Hilliard Budo Center 3840 Lacon rd. Hilliard, Ohio 43026. It will be from 12:00-4:00pm. Topics will include single stick, knife, disarms and controlling tactics. The seminar will be conducted by Guro Dan McConnell, a student of the late Founder, Remy A. Presas and a member of the Board of Directors of the IMAF, inc.. The cost will be $50. in advance and $65. at the door. For further information or a flyer, please e-mail modernarnisofohio@yahoo.com or call the Hilliard Budo Center at 614-771-5599. We hope to see you there! thanks, Modern Arnis of Ohio --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:12:58 -0800 (PST) From: Brandon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Brandishing knives/guns and the use of a closed folder Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My old isshin ryu sensei once made a comment during a class to the effect of "the knife that you REALLY need to worry about is the one that you don't see." I filed that away as good advice. I tend to agree. I have actually been confronted with knives during the course of my work. They were easily disarmed, some times with empty hand techniques other times with a shield-type object, (once a beer pitcher another time a bar stool). I'm always looking at the front pockets of the guys I let in the door of the bar. I get some odd looks if my search is noticed. But very often I do notice a clip and just tell the guy to drop it into his pocket where it is nearly inaccessable. As for using a knife as a visual deterrent, I'd rather use my ASP. The noise of its expansion is much like the sound of a pump shotgun in the dark. It is an attention getter! I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Tuhon Bill will agree with using a closed folder as an impact weapon. Sometimes a good thump on the noggin will buy you some time/distance to make a reassessment of the situation and escalate as needed. Brandon Back-alley Combatives Ft. Wayne IN ===== Better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:37:54 -0500 From: "Buz Grover" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Reactions to Armed Encounters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tim writes: > So pulling a handgun could de-escalate a situation, if someone with a > handgun out says back off, I would be inclined to listen. If someone > pulls a knife, he must get down and dirty in order to be effective. Gary Kleck wrote a very interesting book 10 or so years ago titled "Point Blank, Guns and Violence in America." It's a good source of info on a lot of fronts, one of the foremost being Kleck was one of the first researchers to deduce how often firearms are used defensively in America without a shot being fired. If memory serves, Kleck's figure is about 1,700,000 times per year firearms are used in the United States defensively without the weapon being discharged. Needless to say, gun control advocates aren't happy with this figure so there was a concerted effort to dispute Kleck's findings. All of the studies that followed I'm aware of have shown he is in the ballpark; some now claim these sorts of defensive uses of firearms occur 10,000,000 per year in the U.S. I think this data serves to support the conclusion that producing a weapon can inspire a bad guy to go look for easier pickings. With that said, I don't think someone shaking in his boots holding a .25 automatic should take a lot of comfort from these statistics. Well trained, highly motivated martial artists, or your basic street predator, could probably get past the .25 without much problem. However, it has been pretty convincingly documented that displaying a firearm, or presumably a knife, can cause the attacker to reassess the situation and seek greener pastures. A final note: Kleck's findings and similar ones that followed rarely make it into the mainstream press. If a study came out claiming firearm owners have an increased incidence of halitosis, it's a pretty safe bet it'd make the paper. The fact that law abiding Americans frequently use firearms to ward off crime, though, appears to be too radical a notion to allow on the evening news. This sort of bias is so great that Kleck felt the need to say in the forward to his book that he is a registered Democrat, member of the ACLU, and generally a supporter of liberal causes. He's to be respected for going where the data lead regardless of his politics. If only the rest of the media would do the same. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:15:09 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kick Destructions Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net best answers I've learned for rib to head level round kicks are destructions using knee and or elbow. Imagine catching the kick with Thais pads. Now, as you catch the kick you knee the shin, e.g., kick comes in from the left you sidestep (like in PTK) and face it/catch it, press it down and send your right knee. Opposite for kick from the right. Using the same structure in footwork, you catch with one arm/hand and elbow the shin. Alternatively you can catch and knee with the same-side knee. Tian Shan Shaolin has a similar move but instead of sidestepping there is a step back (I don't know how to communicate this vis-a-vis FMA terminology). Imagine standing neutral, kick oncoming from left, step back directly to the right with your right foot to do any of the above. This is followed by stepping in with the right to a groin smash with fist (and knee) before allowing the attacker's leg to return to the ground and pushing him away like in Muay Thai. Mitakuye Oyasin. Be well. __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Reactions to Armed Encounters To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:16:07 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Gary Kleck wrote a very interesting book 10 or so years ago titled > "Point Blank, Guns and Violence in America." It's a good source of info > on a lot of fronts, one of the foremost being Kleck was one of the > first researchers to deduce how often firearms are used defensively in > America without a shot being fired. If memory serves, Kleck's figure is > about 1,700,000 times per year firearms are used in the United States > defensively without the weapon being discharged. Needless to say, gun > control advocates aren't happy with this figure so there was a > concerted effort to dispute Kleck's findings. All of the studies that > followed I'm aware of have shown he is in the ballpark; some now claim > these sorts of defensive uses of firearms occur 10,000,000 per year in > the U.S. Another excellent read is John R. Lott, More Guns Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws (Studies in Law and Economics). University of Chicago Press; ISBN 0226493644; 2nd edition, July 2000. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com Below taken from Amazon.com Multiple regression analyses are rarely the subject of heated public debate or 225-page books for laypeople. But John R. Lott, Jr.'s study in the January 1997 Journal of Legal Studies showing that concealed-carry weapons permits reduced the crime rate set off a firestorm. The updated study, together with illustrative anecdotes and a short description of the political and academic response to the study, as well as responses to the responses, makes up Lott's informative More Guns, Less Crime. In retrospect, it perhaps should not have been surprising that increasing the number of civilians with guns would reduce crime rates. The possibility of armed victims reduces the expected benefits and increases the expected costs of criminal activity. And, at the margin at least, people respond to changes in costs, even for crime, as Nobel-Prize winning economist Gary Becker showed long ago. Allusions to the preferences of criminals for unarmed victims have seeped into popular culture; Ringo, a British thug in Pulp Fiction, noted off-handedly why he avoided certain targets: "Bars, liquor stores, gas stations, you get your head blown off stickin' up one of them." But Lott's actual quantification of this, in the largest and most comprehensive study of the effects of gun control to date, a study well-detailed in the book, provoked a number of attacks, ranging from the amateurish to the subtly misleading, desperate to discredit him. Lott takes the time to refute each argument; it's almost touching the way he footnotes each time he telephones an attacker who eventually hangs up on him without substantiating any of their claims. Lott loses a little focus when he leaves his firm quantitative base; as an economist, he should know that the low number of rejected background checks under the Brady Bill doesn't demonstrate anything by itself, because some people may have been deterred from even undergoing the background check in the first place, but he attacks the bill on this ground anyway. But the conclusions that are backed by evidence--that concealed-weapons permits reduce crime, and do so at a lower cost to society than increasing the number of police or prisons--are important ones that should be considered by policymakers. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:45:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Bacon & Villasin ?? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just recently had the pleasure of seeing a brief bit (~25 secs?) of Guros Bacon and Villasin and some other Balintawak players. At least that is how they were identified. This was rather old snippet, probably a copy of a copy. Anyone know where this might have come from and/or how to obtain more footage of these pioneers? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest