Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:31:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #389 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Remy's judgement (Dan McConnell) 2. What's a green man dummy? (Fred O) 3. RE: What's a green man dummy? (Mike Casto) 4. Martial arts vs Business (bill m) 5. Gathering of Filipino Martial Arts on TFC: The Filipino Channel (Elrik Jundis) 6. Re: Ray Terry query and Al Sardinas post (Danny Anderson) 7. Re: Solo Training In any Environment (Johnaleen) 8. Bart, Ray and Rocky Make Sense (al sardinas) 9. Non-shooting uses of guns (Marc Denny) 10. DBMA & Sayoc in NYC (Marc Denny) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: mccfamily@plexis.net (Dan McConnell) To: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 22:11:47 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Remy's judgement Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Rocky, I gotta applaud your post. I absolutely agree with most of it. And your spelling wasn't to bad either. This must be a sign of growth. :-) Sincerely, Guro Dan McConnell IMAF, inc. Board of Directors Modern Arnis of Ohio --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Fred O" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:36:54 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] What's a green man dummy? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings all, this is my first time posting to this forum. I have been a member for a while now but have not had the gumshin to post. Actually I haven't had anything to say, until now. I was reading a post and a green man dummy was mentioned. Just so everyone doesn't think that I am a moron, I have been studying MA for 12 years now. I have been studyiing FMA for only 1 year though. Any insight as to what a green man dummy or where I can see one would help greatly. Thank you. Fred C. O'Keefe ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] What's a green man dummy? Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:30:14 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The green man that was referred to, I believe, is the "Fighting Man Dummy" available from I & I Sports. It's particularly nice for FMA work because the dummy has velcro straps that allow it to "hold" weapons. http://martialarts.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iismartialarts&pf_id=PM1000A&d ept_id=2309 Mike -----Original Message----- From: Fred O [mailto:fcokeefe69@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:37 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] What's a green man dummy? Greetings all, this is my first time posting to this forum. I have been a member for a while now but have not had the gumshin to post. Actually I haven't had anything to say, until now. I was reading a post and a green man dummy was mentioned. Just so everyone doesn't think that I am a moron, I have been studying MA for 12 years now. I have been studyiing FMA for only 1 year though. Any insight as to what a green man dummy or where I can see one would help greatly. Thank you. Fred C. O'Keefe ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "bill m" To: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:06:24 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Martial arts vs Business Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky wrote: "Fact is Professor was truly an awesome martial artist, but I wouldn't let him run my daughters lemon aid stand." I have seen this to be true in so many grandmasters that I am begining to wonder if having great martial arts skills and great business accume are mutually exclusive (at least in the older generation of FMA grandmasters). Any thoughts? Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath www.pekiti-tirsia.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Elrik Jundis" To: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:07:55 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Gathering of Filipino Martial Arts on TFC: The Filipino Channel Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net So you know ABS-CBN will be broadcasting a segment on the event this week on "Balitang America" on Friday at 6:30 PM PST on KTSF Channel 26 in the San Francisco Bay Area. It will also air on TFC: The Filipino Channel on this Friday at 9:00 PM PST and Saturday at 7:45 AM PST; this is a cable station found in parts of the US with large Filipino populations. Elrik G. Jundis Guro/Director School of Pilipino Mastery Arts (415) 601-2735 elrik.jundis@pilipinoma.com http://www.pilipinoma.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 04:30:27 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Ray Terry query and Al Sardinas post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Ray Terry  ... Guro Paman points out that "It is no secret  that all three Presas brothers shared the same essential roots in their early arnis education." ... But I'm not sure they actually did, did they? I believe that Remy traveled around a lot, training from a very wide variety of instructors prior to his initial creation of Modern Arnis. Thus E & R didn't really have all that similar of a background. ???  Comments? Rocky? Ray Terry   Ray, You are correct.  Ernesto and Roberto, to my understanding, trained under Remy for some time but Remy trained in Balintawak escrima.  Ernesto and Roberto did not.  You would have to see the two of them move and feel them "up close" to tell the difference.  Re- Al's Modern Arnis post and Rocky Pasiwk's reply  Al Wrote: "Well, this article got me thinking. First of all about the rumor feud, I learned from a high source that it was only a misunderstanding and nothing more. Secondly, about the state of Modern Arnis, right now as I see it there are many branches out there that are claiming to be Master, Grand Master, Datu, etc. which I can accept. But how can these branches grow without any root? Like a massive tree with small and large branches, once it loses its roots only one thing will happen, it will die unless it grows another root. I think it is time for the Modern Arnis people out there to grow another root. And I think that Grandmaster Ernesto Presas would be the logical and perfect choice for the people out there who lost their master. I'm not saying throw everything that you learned out but acknowledge your uncle if Remy was truly your father. If you do this, your art will grow, your knowledge will grow, your organization will grow, you will grow and you will have the support of an organization that has strong roots." Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis Rocky's reply: "Well your thinking is pretty good, its logical, well thought out, and even makes me all warm and fuzzy.  But it will never happen, even though it should. You see Al first you have to get inside Remy's head then you would understand why his art is splintered. Remy's biggest fault was he was to nice of a person, to be such an important man. He never liked to hurt anyone's feelings. His idea of being a good businessman was, making everyone happy. So if he was at your school doing a seminar for you and helping you develop a base or core of people, then you were his #1 or one of his ambassadors. And so on for whoever's school he was at next. The man just couldn't say NO to anyone, especially if they were making him a living. So if umpteen people think and probably were told they were number one by the GM himself and that they were going to carry on in his name after he was gone, there is no way they are all going to come together. For some strange reason many of us ( myself included, when I was young and dumb ) hold Grandmasters in a different light than we do others. When in reality they are just the same as you or I but with a talent at a particular thing that far exceeds ours. But this does not make them a great leader of men, or good business people. There is an old joke amongst old time Modern Arnis guys, Remys International Modern Arnis Federation's official address is IMAF C/O where ever Remys brief case is today. Fact is Professor was truly an awesome martial artist, but I wouldn't let him run my daughters lemon aid stand.  I remember telling Remy once at a camp when everyone was doing empty hand forms that they all looked ridiculous, that everyone did it differently. No body mechanics, no joint or ligament alignment or connection. He simply laughed and said Rocky you know that And I know that, but look how happy everyone is. That was Remy making everyone happy. In turn its my opinion that Remy was not beyond feeling threatened by some of his students that were well organized. It seems every time he would get involved with a few people that could get him up and running a good organization, and be people that just weren't looking for rank or trying to get something from him, he would do something to cause a fall out. He is most famous for telling somebody's student to go out and open their own school and be on their own, often times without consulting the instructor who has been working with this individual sometimes for years, and sometimes only months. All across America there are groups of people that were originally friends, training partners, some even business partners that know don't even speak because of stuff like this that he did. Again for all of his beauty and grace as a martial artist, his warmth as a person, his business practice and judgments were horrible. But he still left his mark on this small planet of ours, like few man have done, and that is to be admired. Maybe , the splintering of Modern Arnis might be that best thing that could have happened, maybe the art will grow and flourish even more. Granted there are some guys that are not that talented doing their own thing, but he has a few pretty competent guys that are out there keeping it going to." Rocky Al, My own two cents worth.  First, Remy was our root.  If you understood what he was doing and the fundamentals which underlie his art, you got the root.  Secondly, as a 20 year plus student of Remy Presas, I have seen personally everything Rocky spoke of.  Remy Presas was a wonderful martial artist and he was a man with flaws like the rest of us.  Thirdly, many grandmasters went out on their own with less than 20 years experience untheir belts and made good.  Time will tell who is and who isn't going to make it after Remy Presas is gone.  I do think the splintering of Modern Arnis is actually following in the footsteps of Remy Presas.  he never laid down a system for the ages.  He taught the art within your art.  He studied and grew his entire life.  That was the legacy of Modern Arnis in my estimation - to continue to study and grow. Yours, Dan Anderson Founder, Modern Arnis 80 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Johnaleen" To: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:01:26 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Solo Training In any Environment Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Solo Training in FMA: Dear Gord, Over the past 20 years I have had to spend large blocks of time solo training, there have been a number of times I could not train with anyone or train at all due to my health. During the times, I was unable to train because of negative health I did as Mike K. listed in his reply using my visualization skills and then studied in the history and different techniques of the FMA. During the times I have had to train by myself, I used many methods. From banging on trees in the outback of Australia, to having a 5 inch thick rope hanging from my back yard tree for hitting on, I also have a lightweight leather sand bag, and a short rattan stick hanging at about face length that I use for timing and to practice getting my head out of the way. Over my training history I have gone though the full range and gambit of possibilities, another very good tool that Guro Ramon uses is old car tires, you can Either stack the tires or hang them singly from chains. If your interested I have a picture of my solo training area that I work from when I am staying in the woods of central California. Send me a private email and I can forward the picture to you. Its an easy deal to set up and can be moved about with you if your traveling. I have done all the other things people have listed here as well but i seemed to mostly do my own thing and found out what suited me. My suggestion is take everyone's suggestions and play with them. Then pick out what you like best and go with the FLOW...:) Ms. J bows deeply PS. HI Federico......:) --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:10:13 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Bart, Ray and Rocky Make Sense Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bart, Thanks for the info on the website on Mark Mikita. I did visit the website but it does not go in to detail on what systems Guro Mikita studied. Hopefully, when his resume is posted, the details will be there. Ray, I wrote ".. Guro Paman points out that "It is no secret that all three Presas brothers shared the same essential roots in their early arnis education." ... You wrote "But I'm not sure they actually did, did they? I believe that Remy traveled around a lot, training from a very wide variety of instructors prior to his initial creation of Modern Arnis. Thus E & R didn't really have all that similar of a background. ???" The only information I know about this subject is what I read. On Guro Jeff Delaney's site, he wrote "Presas began his study of Arnis at age 6. He learned his farther, Jose Presas, in the small fishing village of Hinigarin, Negros Occidental, in the Philippines. He left home at age 14 so he could pursue his interest in the fighting arts practiced on the many islands of his homeland." So it would be my induction to assume that GM Ernesto and Roberto learned from their father also. Therefore, I would think it would be safe to say that all brothers had the same roots in their early FMA education. However, as you pointed out, GM Remy traveled and learned from a variety of teachers before creating Modern Arnis.But again referring to Guro Delaney's site, one can conclude that arnis became Modern Arnis when GM Remy change the practice from hitting the hand to hitting the stick of the training partner (I know I'm being simplistic, but can you cut me some slack). Rocky, I can not find any fault with what you wrote and you indeed make a lot of sense. However, for discussion let me offer some thoughts, you wrote " I know that it confused Remy all to hell when someone said he and his brothers founded Modern Arnis. Because Modern Arnis was founded in 1957 one brother was 12 and I believe ( not for sure) the other was in his teens." In the Philippines the FMA being a family art was taught to siblings when they were very young. So at the age of 12, one could have mastered the art. In fact because of the concentration and constant daily learning, it would be possible for a younger sibling to be more proficient in the family art than an older one. Also, the famous pink book was published in 1974 so it is also possible that the book could have been a collaboration of all three brothers with the youngest being an adult at the age of 29. Personally, I think I am getting out of hand. I don't want to start additional arguments. And Rocky you may be 200 % correct when you wrote "Maybe , the splintering of Modern Arnis might be that best thing that could have happened, maybe the art will grow and flourish even more" but it also possible that Modern Arnis will become a dilution than a strong solution. Only time will tell. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 05:45:52 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Non-shooting uses of guns Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: > > If memory serves, Kleck's figure is > > about 1,700,000 times per year firearms are used in the United States > > defensively without the weapon being discharged. Needless to say, gun > > control advocates aren't happy with this figure so there was a > > concerted effort to dispute Kleck's findings. All of the studies that > > followed I'm aware of have shown he is in the ballpark; some now claim > > these sorts of defensive uses of firearms occur 10,000,000 per year in > > the U.S. > > Another excellent read is John R. Lott, More Guns Less Crime: Understanding > Crime and Gun Control Laws (Studies in Law and Economics). University of > Chicago Press; ISBN 0226493644; 2nd edition, July 2000. > > Ray Terry It is an important point that guns are used defensively without being shot, and one that is continuously and dishonestly left out of the data provided by anti-gun groups, but I gotta say that 10,000,000 number strikes me as twaddle-- what is that, on average one out of every 27 Americans brandishes a gun every year? C'mon. That said, on the other hand Lott is absolutely superb. If memory serves he is a Professor of Law at some snooty law school (Princeton?) and his writing is precise, intellectually sound and honest. Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:59:25 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] DBMA & Sayoc in NYC Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Date: November 9-10, 2002 Subject: PMAA's Filipino Martial Arts Seminar Time: Location: Progressive Martial Arts Academy, NY Contact: Nick Sacoulas Phone: 718-461-0700 Email: nick@progressivemartialarts.com Website: http://progressivemartialarts.com Details: PMAA's Filipino Martial Arts Seminar Featuring (November 9th) Tuhon Chris Sayoc Sayoc Kali Dynamic Art of Edged Weapons. (November 10th) Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny Dog Brothers Martial Arts Real Contact Stickfighting. $75 per day, $130 for both days. Online Registration: http://progressivemartialarts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Co de=PMAA&Category_Code=SAYOC Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest