Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:52:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #403 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. The Gathering..... (Pyrczak Publishing) 2. The Carabao and the Shell (Ray Terry) 3. Re: The Gathering..... (Ray Terry) 4. Dog Brother Gathering this Sunday (Marc Denny) 5. Re: The Gathering..... (Jason) 6. Hickory (Stephen Lamade) 7. Presas Lineage Chart by Kelly Worden (jay de leon) 8. Re: Inexpensive hickory stick (Kel620@aol.com) 9. Bahi (DAVID FULTON) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Pyrczak Publishing" To: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:00:01 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] The Gathering..... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just wondering if anyone is going to "The Gathering" Sunday november 24th. Jason --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:27:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] The Carabao and the Shell Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Carabao and the Shell Tinguian One very hot day, when a carabao went into the river to bathe, he met a shell and they began talking together. "You are very slow," said the carabao to the shell. "Oh, no," replied the shell. "I can beat you in a race." "Then let us try and see," said the carabao. So they went out on the bank and started to run. After the carabao had gone a long distance he stopped and called, "Shell!" And another shell lying by the river answered, "Here I am!" Then the carabao, thinking that it was the same shell with which he was racing, ran on. By and by he stopped again and called, "Shell!" And another shell answered, "Here I am!" The carabao was surprised that the shell could keep up with him. But he ran on and on, and every time he stopped to call, another shell answered him. But he was determined that the shell should not beat him, so he ran until he dropped dead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * Source: Mabel Cook Cole, Philippine Folk Tales (Chicago: A. C. McClurg, 1916), p. 89. * Note by Cole: "Another version of this tale is found in the British North Borneo in the story of the plandok and the crab." --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Gathering..... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:33:55 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Just wondering if anyone is going to "The Gathering" Sunday november 24th. I believe the Bakbakan's 'The Gathering 2002' was held back in September. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:29:26 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Dog Brother Gathering this Sunday Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof J: You wrote: > From: "Pyrczak Publishing" > To: > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:42:00 -0800 > Subject: [Eskrima] Greetings > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Hi all, > > I recently started training and thought the Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > mailing list would be a good idea. Hopefully to learn more about the art > itself, the culture in general, and even meet some fellow practioners. ( maybe > in my area ) > This Sunday I hear something is going on in El Segundo @ R.A.W. Details > anyone....... > > j That would be our "Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack". We already have some 32 or 33 registered fighters. Crafty Dog -------------------- Invitation to the "Fall 2002 Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack" A Howl of Greeting: On behalf of the Council of Elders of the Dog Brothers, Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts hereby cordially invites you to its "Dog Brothers' Winter Gathering of the Pack" at 11:00 AM on Sunday, November 24, 2002. Many of you remember our Gatherings in the park in Hermosa Beach. The years were spent there were very special, and that we could do what we do in a public park I believe is a powerful testimonial to what we (and that includes you) are about. Still, it was inevitable that sooner or later problems would show up that we could not handle in the context of a public place. With the RAW Gym we have found a suitable private property location. RAW, headed up by Rico Chiapparelli, is a 8000 sq. ft. world class NHB facility with strong fighting spirit. Not many private property locations are large enough and bold enough to be the site of a "Dog Brothers Gathering"! Although the Gatherings in the Park were hosted at considerable expense to ourselves, we always held them for free to you our friends, our guests. However with a private facility involved we now need to charge admission of $10. We ask that you still consider yourselves to be our friends and our guests. In this context we ask that you respect our wishes in the matter of Video. It is very simple: NO VIDEO CAMERAS, NO DUAL PURPOSE CAMERAS (i.e. with both still photo and video capabilities). This matter is of importance to us-as one individual discovered at the last Gathering. If you see someone videoing, please let us know! As always, you may take photographs for personal, non-commercial use PROVIDED you give us a complete set of the ones you take. Thanks to the increasing numbers of you who actually remember and bother to do this! It is very much appreciated! Those of you flying in but not familiar with Los Angeles will be glad to know that El Segundo borders LAX airport on the south-so logistics should be a snap. Those of you who like staying on the beach in Hermosa Beach at the Sea Sprite can do so, it is but 6 miles to the south-- but this option will probably require a car. For those looking to stay as close to the RAW Gym and the airport as possible, (this option does not require a car) there is some hotel contact info on the website. The Magic Words: The MAGIC WORDS: "No judges, no referees, no trophies. One rule only: Be friends at the end of the day. This means our goal is that no one spends the night in the hospital. Our goal is that everyone leaves with the IQ with which they came. No suing no one for no reason for nothing no how no way! Real Contact Stickfighting is Dangerous and only you are responsible for you. Protect yourself at all times. All copyright belongs to Dog Brothers Inc. CA law applies." This matter of accepting the risk applies to those of you in the crowd too. For example, sticks, and fights for that matter, may go flying into the crowd. Parents should consider things like this in deciding whether a child is old enough to bring along or deciding on from where to observe the event. For example, sitting on the heavy bags ringing the fighting area is a really risky idea for a child (or adult for that matter). If a stick or a fight comes careening your way-get out of the way! Know that RAW Gym tells us that they will have some bleachers this time, which should help comfort and viewing pleasure considerably. There is no charge for fighters but FIGHTERS MUST PRE-REGISTER, even if they have fought before. The Fighter's Registration form can be found on the website. If you are member of the Dog Brothers tribe an email or phone call will suffice. For all Fighter Registration matters, please contact Cindy at Prettykitty@dogbrothers.com 310-540-6853. You are not pre-registered until your name appears on the list of registered fighters on the website!!! If you have fought before and show up without having pre-registered there will be a $20 fee. We REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't like having to deal with this on such a busy day so please do yourself and us a favor and pre-register. If you haven't fought before and you show up without having pre-registered, you will not be allowed to fight. This will be ruthlessly enforced! Knife fights will allow for aluminum training blades if both fighters are willing. Remember that you may fight with weapons other than a stick if you can find someone willing to go against you. Please consider stick and knife fights, staff fights, and anything else. In order to more deeply explore certain elements, fighters may agree to "no grappling" rules. In the days ahead, the flying fickle finger of fate may reach out and touch any one of us without warning. A Dog Brother Gathering is a place that "We the Self-Organizing Militia" (see below) can hone our warrior skills and spirit. Hope to see you there on Sunday, November 24, 2002. "Higher Consciousness through Harder Contact!"(c) Woof, Crafty Dog Guiding Force of the Dog Brothers For info please contact VP In Charge of Reality Cindy "Pretty Kitty" Denny at 310-540-6853 Prettykitty@dogbrothers.com ---------------------------------------------------------- Section 311 of US Code Title 10, entitled, "Militia: composition and classes" in its entirety reads as follows: (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are - (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Jason" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Gathering..... Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:05:22 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This ones Dog Brothers in El Segundo. Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Gathering..... > Just wondering if anyone is going to "The Gathering" Sunday november 24th. I believe the Bakbakan's 'The Gathering 2002' was held back in September. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:17:40 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Hickory Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re. "I don't believe I've worked (as in wood working) with hickory. Is it a hard and brittle wood as is kamagong or a wood that is difficult to break and crack more like bahi" I don't know whether hickory is more like kamagong or bahi. I suspect the latter, as hickory is used for axe, maul, and sledgehammer handles. It has a good combination of hardness and flexibility, which is why your hands don't ache after splitting a cord of wood. (A great training weapon, by the way, is a large axe handle, which has a slight curve similar to the belly of a sword.) [See also Todd Ellner's post on the ED from 2/10/01. (Osage orange is also used to make simple bows, which means that it also has a combination of hardness and flexibility).] Hickory's pretty hard. It has a janka side hardness rating of about 1850 lbs., which makes it 50% harder than red oak. I think that bahi and kamagong are probably harder; they are certainly heavier and denser. Question: is kamagong a species of ebony or is it similar to Australian ironwood? I've seen the "tiretester" referred to in the previous post modified with with a core of lead 2" inside the tip. Apparently the bouncer at the bar mistook someone's leg for a tire and broke his shin bone by mistake... If anyone knows of anyone skilled in woodturning and carving I have a old bahi dagger that I would like to duplicate in hickory. If you'd like to send me an estimate I can be reached at: lhommedieu@hotmail.com Best, Steve Lamade San Miguel Eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:34:43 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Presas Lineage Chart by Kelly Worden Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Worden, You wrote that Generation 2 includes those that were a part of the group during the NARAPHIL era. During our last e-mail exchange back in September, in reference to my Modern Arnis training via NARAPHIL, you took me (and NARAPHIL) to task and wrote "NARAPHIL was a direct insult to Remy Presas!" Could you please explain the seeming contradiction between your two statements? Has your recent review of NARAPHIL history revealed to you that there were many dedicated Modern Arnis practitioners in NARAPHIL loyal to the Presases who can claim legitimate Modern Arnis lineage? I would say that Generation 2 would be made up of hundreds of legitimate Modern Arnis practitioners, both Filipino and non-Filipino (I guess depending on how you define "senior student" and "ranking") And by the way, how can you personally ascertain who was a legitimate and loyal Generation 2 Modern Arnis practitioner? Will you be plowing and poring over NARAPHIL records covering at least a dozen years in the Philippines? Mr. Worden, as a late rebuttal to your last e-mail, I would like to state unequivocably that I have no intention or desire to meddle in, influence or capitalize on Modern Arnis affairs, including your lineage chart. But I will express my opinions (solicited or otherwise, on any topic that interests me), just as hundreds have done and do in MA magazines, internet digests and forums, etc. Again, I feel privileged to have known and trained with Prof. Presas, and many outstanding Modern Arnis masters in the Philippines and U.S. Good luck with your project; that is a daunting task. Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:35:39 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net CC: rterry@idiom.com Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Inexpensive hickory stick Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't know if it's stronger than Bahi, but Hickory is used for the handles on most impact tools(sledge hammers, framing/carpenters hammers, axes, etc.) if it can withstand that type of shock, it's good enough for me. Kelvin In a message dated 11/22/2002 12:11:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > From: Ray Terry > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Inexpensive hickory stick > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:07:01 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > I found this in a catalog that I received about a week ago. I figured you > all > > would be interested...especially Serrada and other corto range > practitioners. > > It's 18" long, made of hickory, and has an oval shape. > > I don't believe I've worked (as in wood working) with hickory. Is it a > hard > and brittle wood as is kamagong or a wood that is difficult to break and > crack more like bahi? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:28:54 -0800 (PST) From: DAVID FULTON To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Bahi Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello! I am interested in sources of Bahi sticks. Does anyone know where I could purchase Bahi sticks? I'm interested in a pair (28" long by 1" diameter) and a staff (1" diameter by about 48" long). Also, my search for sources of Bahi sticks, left me with a question about Bahi itself. Can anyone tell me whether "Bahi" wood comes from Palm Trees or Coconut Trees? I've been comparing pictures of wood from the Black Palm tree and the Coconut tree, to the Bahi sticks that I've handled, and based upon the appearance of the wood it seems that Bahi could possibly come from either tree. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Sincerely, Dave Fulton --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest