Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:05:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #409 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Cut versus slash (Slaughterhouse) 2. Ironwood death matches (TABULA RAZA) 3. Importing Kamagong (Patrick Davies) 4. The Karambit (Seraksatu@aol.com) 5. Over the River... (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Kerambits: why the fuss? (Andrew Maddox) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:44:49 -0700 From: Slaughterhouse To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Cut versus slash Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have had three knife wounds myself. My right hand was slashed open in a knife fight in 1987 (actually it was torn open by the upper blade section of his knife). Second time was a stab wound in the left arm in 1993 with a gamming knife (worked on the killfloor of a slaughterhouse with an obviously high accident rate). While it was a stab wound, due to the design of this particular knife, had managed to cut my arm in half. I "sprayed" quite a bit of blood, was in an arm sling for nearly 6 months, and have a very ugly scar. The third was about a year ago in which I had a razor knife shoved through my chin (another scar, but now on my face, which ticks me off). In my opinion the hand slash looked VERY ugly after delivery (sounded like a pair of jeans tearing; I actually checked my pants right away before my hand felt "breezy") it was stitched, though tore apart and had to be restiched a second time (a large wound to the hand can be tricky to heal as you are constantly moving it..for th recieved no enjoyment out of it but I also can say it will NOT stop someone with an agenda in mind. The stab to the arm though...ughhhh total nightmare. I was completley covered in blood and covered my wound immediatley (I actually heard a "pop" sound when the knife penetrated although the slaughter operations were very noisy. Like an internal noise if that make sense. My first instinct was to get the knife as far away from me as possible). Within 10 minutes I felt VERY dizzy with a cold sweat. I get the shivers during arnis whenever we are using training knives; feeling them slide across the arms or poke the kidneys. If I was in a situation where I had no choice, I would stab as opposed to slash. Sorry if I was a little long winded there, just figured it would help. Dan Markowski Edmonton, Alberta Canada --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:50:19 -1000 (HST) From: TABULA RAZA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Ironwood death matches Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A story about ironwood . . . Back in the days, Maestro Snookie related a story to a student about how GM Villabrille once told him of using an ironwood stick in a death match. The guy rushed him, to which he side stepped and hit the opponent in the back of the head. The guys eyeballs popped out of his eye socket and instantly died. The stick was very heavy and was not used for anything besides his death matches. About the Maoris . . . In "Once Were Warriors" they talk about and show a little staff work (though very little, so don't go looking for it if that's what you only want to see). If you watch the Maoris do their "hakas" or war chants you see them sometime do martial-like movements. I also understand there are other Plynesian martial arts (besides Hawaiin Lua), i.e. tahala (stick fighting), and "bwang" a Caroline Island martial art. I only know of one book on "bwang", and its a preserved book at the Hawaiian section of University of Hawaii. I think that book and a few books on Lua were hoploloogy works of Mr. Donn Draeger during his fellowship at the East-West Center in Hawaii. In a related story . . back in 1997 I tried to take these books out of the preserved section, not knowing that it was against policy (I was an ignorant freshman back then). I went out of the room without the security thing going off. I went into the elevator by myself headed for the checkout counter on the 1stfloor. As I reached the 3rd floor, I felt an unmistakentable warmth and grip pressure on my right shoulder, like a hand trying to stop me. On the 3rd floor two people came in and I proceeded to the 1st floor. I had a feeling that I should check my books, I guess kind of mildly freaked, and lo and behold, there on the last page in red bold letters, "PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OUT OF 5TH FLOOR PACIFIC SECTION". I went back to the 5th floor and the damn security thing went off with the whole red lights flashing and everything. Mildly embarassed, I returned the books and proceeded to have a small interrogation by the librarian who probably thought I was out to steal it (though what theif would be retarded enough to return to the scene of the crime w/ the loot?). Later I relayed this info to many other fellow friends who worked at the library, who told me of all the stories the custodians used to tell them, of all the apparitions and spirits they've seen, felt, and even smelled (smell ed like rotting flesh from what they said). If you ever get the chance to read the security logs at UH, sure enough, there are quite a few about unusual disturbances at the library especially on the 1st and 5th floor. Though if anything, I'd like to think of it as Mr. Draeger kindly telling me to return his books to the Pacific section. -Erwin Legaspi "All I have ever longed for in my life . . . a vision of God." - 9th and 10th century Sufi mystic Mansur Al-Hallaj "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." - Jiddu Krishnamurti --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Patrick Davies To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:37:47 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Importing Kamagong Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I saw this, I was under the impression there was a stop on Kamagong being exported as its natural supplies are dangerously low. Something that Jeff Finder tried to deal with by giving alternative training materials. As a result any such actions may be illegal but more importantly will we see these woods disappear from the Phillipines? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Seraksatu@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:06:46 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Karambit Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Selamat Mr. Tom Valesky: In Serak the KNife is one of the Weapons that is used and called Pisau. The real story of the Karambit is not a nice one, and as recent as the 1960 during a time period of termoil on Java beetween the Communist and the Governement at the time, and you wont get an argument from me at all. I have to agree with you. It may look mysterious but will fail for the initial breaching of the Gap. The Pukulan Blade will outgun the Karambit anyway. With minimal training of any student, the hooked design on the handle of the pukulan blade makes for a faster draw and cut, even this in the reverse grip a stronger grip. even a decent Folder (Liner Lock) when already held in hand, as the Karambit is also held in hand outguns the Karambit. Now you can not always have the tool in hand, so the folder is clipped on the pants pocket and the karambit is in the pocket or even with a fancy quick draw sheath. (The quick Draw Sheath, That is of American ingenuity and not Sundanese) Now draw and cut, you will find the Karambit lagging behind. In conclusion, it is the practitioner that needs to breach the Gap in a time of need. The karambit would not be the weapon of my choice at all personally. To slow, to short, for me, especially with the initial breaching of the Gap to cut of the Computer Center. The Pukulan Blade will Slash and Stab in a beat of one almost. I have designed and use training devise to train for blade work Pak Vic << I seem to be hearing a lot about kerambits lately. What's all the fuss about? It seems to me that you lose more than you gain with that blade shape; it'd be a better slasher than an ordinary knife, but effective stabbing is pretty much impossible (at least with the short-bladed designs I've seen; and even with a long blade, it'd be pretty awkward, IMHO). Not trying to pick a fight; I'm willing to be convinced, but I don't see the advantage at first glance. Thanks, Tom Valesky >> --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang), eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:40:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Over the River... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Since many of you (esp in the US) may be headed over the river and through the woods for Thanksgiving dinner... have a good one. And remember those infamous woods from our friend the turkey, you are what you eat. gobble gobble... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:13:45 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kerambits: why the fuss? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, Tom and all; On , 25 Nov 2002, Tom Valesky wrote: >I seem to be hearing a lot about kerambits lately. What's all the fuss >about? I haven't heard extra fuss lately about kerambit, myself, but that's no matter. Speaking as primarily a silat student, I have to say that I like the kerambit. It isn't as versatile as a long-bladed knife in lots of ways, but you don't use it that way, it's a pretty specialized weapon (in the little I've learned of it). Next time you're grappling, or in extra close range, let your pinky straighten out a bit and think of it as a blade sticking out from the bottom of your fist, like a kerambit. Then see where that "blade" can end up. Also think of concealability and legality (except in Malaysia, and maybe Singapore, I think) - a good folder competes well in those areas, but still a kerambit may have only an inch or two of sharpened blade, and in the US (where I am), that's legal just about everywhere but on an airplane anymore. So, for "knife fighting" no, a kerambit isn't often much good. But for that little extra easily-hidden advantage in a "oh crap! he's right on top of me" situation, it can be. Or so I hear. >Not trying to pick a fight; I'm willing to be convinced, but I don't >see the advantage at first glance. Eh, it's just another tool. It has things it's good for and things it's not good for. My junior opinions only, your mileage may vary, etc... SF, afm -- Andrew Maddox, found at: madsox@radix.net Today's Bartism: My name is not Dr. Death. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest