Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:01:49 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #410 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Kamagong (GatPuno@aol.com) 2. Bwang (Young Forest) 3. KAMAGONG/log banned (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. The Gathering Of The Pack, and E-Mail List, and a special thanks! (Cindy Denny) 5. bad Maori dreams (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Kamagong (Ray Terry) 7. Haka (Michael Koblic) 8. Importing Kamagong is ILLEGAL (NAVARRO FULBERT) 9. Karambit (Musilat@aol.com) 10. Re: Bwang (jason-couch@comcast.net) 11. Hard woods (S. H. WEE) 12. Re Bahi thread (tenrec@avcorner.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:00:25 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kamagong Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fulbert, Its is nice story, but reality is, Kamgong is a stick, that can be break, shattered by stick and can be cut by a machete. It might not be cut is one blow but it can be cut through. I know its sound good, but the fact that matter is "Kamagong" is a hard wood but its brrittle in some points. Kamagong is a good for carving wood, I work on it for 18 years. I know its not what everyone think it is. Kamagong become effective weapon because ( used by Eskrimador) is heavy and is depend how to used them. One of my student broke his Kamagong right on practiced, I told them that why we used rattan, its safety does not break that easy, is splinters and split in half but stand for so many blows. I test Kamagong VS Bahi, Kamagong would break in half If I give the full blow. Kamagong is better to used if is still fresh, when its dried already whats out, chances are your stick will break caused of brittleness. Kamagong also is a wood that hard from the root to the trunk, off-course the hardest part is the main tree, inside part, because the outer part is reddish color (Banakal), not as hard the inside part, the black Part call it (tigas or kakas). When the tree died, the reddish part will be rotten and the center will stand left, no bugs can eaten them caused of the black part is the hard like metal but brittle, when it dry. Like I said before kamagong is just stick, nothing special, nothing to be "wow" about, the techniques used from it is more special that the wood. This is just on my opinion. No house in the Philippines that made out of Kamagong wood, first it is hard to work with when it dry, second is hazzard to the house, Philippine experience hundreds of Earthquakes a year and some of them is quite strong, if you got a housed that does not give (meaning absorb when quake arised), you will find your house flat to the grounds. We used wood that can stanc the wave of the typhon, and earthquake, like, Maulawin, Malagmat, Red Mahogany, White Mahogany, and others. Kamagong is not used mainly for building a house iis is more for decoration purposes caused of its colorful texture of wood, some redesh to greenish black color, and some is solid black. Anyway I am just try to make a point and share the to others what I I know about this wood. But I have to admit, it is a beautiful stick to have, and the shorter the stick the harder it is. Just my two cent on the kamagong, Gumagalang/with respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA > According to your description of the "Iron Wood" as > you call it, it matches that of a wood we call in the > Philippines as Kamagong and I think it is called in > the U.S. as Macassar ebony...it belongs to the ebony > family. It is very hard and very dense indeed. Infact > I have one myself! My father and my grandmother used > to tell me that many of our ancestors used Kamagong in > actual combat during world war two! One story my > grandmother told me that it can even repel an attack > of a machete, pinuti,and any other bladed weapon known > but ofcourse with minimum damage to the kamagong stick > itself. The tree from which it came from is very > difficult to cut. Some furniture shops treasure their > Kamagong works because of the difficulty to make it > into a furniture thing and by the way, my father who > was once an apprentice of my grandfather who was a > carpenter told me that you cant drive a nail through a > block of Kamagong without badly damaging the wood. Due > to its renowned hardness, you have to drill a hole > through it using drills specifically for steel > working. The black colored stick comes from the lower > part of the base itself while the red and brown sticks > come from the middle section and upper section of the > trunk respectively. The darker the color of the wood > the harder it is that is why it is called "Iron Wood" > because it resembles that of an unpolished piece of > iron and it contains similar strength to that of iron. > > --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:19:10 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Bwang Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >also understand there are other Plynesian martial arts (besides Hawaiin >Lua), i.e. tahala (stick fighting), and "bwang" a Caroline Island martial >art. I only know of one book on "bwang", and its a preserved book at the >Hawaiian section of University of Hawaii. I think that book and a few >books on Lua were hoploloogy works of Mr. Donn Draeger during his >fellowship at the East-West Center in Hawaii. First martial arts magazine I ever purchased had a large article about Bwang. Lots of stuff on grappling holds, use of the double-headed spear, and a short staff a little longer than a walking stick. I don't remember any knife work though. Badger _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:20:05 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] KAMAGONG/log banned Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, This is a very good info. Yes its true, there a log banned in regards of exporting Kamagong and other exotic wood that grow only in the island, and my home town is extremely affected by this. My town Paete 113 Klm from Manila is world producer of woodcarving from cristmas decor to image of Jesus. After Ex President Joseph Estrada enforce the log banned, our business dies almost completely, but you know Filipino, they will do anything to make a living, including illigal work. If you were in their shoes, you might do the same, there are no other way. A lot of them, still cut ans sold Kamagong to the exporting agency or buyers. This is one of the Philippine sickness, that cant control. Can you believed is rattan is part of this log banned, most rattan that we got is from Indonesia and Malaysian rattan via China, unless is already stick, not a raw product, then you can imports. Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet > I was under the impression there was a stop on Kamagong being exported as > its natural supplies are dangerously low. Something that Jeff Finder tried > to deal with by giving alternative training materials. > > As a result any such actions may be illegal but more importantly will we > see > these woods disappear from the Phillipines? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Cindy Denny" To: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:59:40 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] The Gathering Of The Pack, and E-Mail List, and a special thanks! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, We just finished posting pictures from Sunday's Gathering in our multimedia section of the website. Over 300 pictures! As pictures come in from the spectators, we'll post them as well. You can view the pictures by following this link ( Then click the "slideshow" option in the top right corner, sit back and enjoy!): http://www.dogbrothers.com/gallery/ We've also added an E-Mailing List. If you would like to be kept informed of our doings (Dog Brothers Gatherings, videos, seminars, training camps, that sort of thing) then sign up here: http://www.dogbrothers.com/mailinglist.htm We promise not to share our list with others and you can always "unsign". Also, a SPECIAL THANKS to the RAW gym for hosting our gathering at their facility! A great time was had by all. Meowwwwwwwwwwwww, Cindy "Pretty Kitty" Denny --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:35:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] bad Maori dreams Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks for reminding me about the movie Once Were Warriors... I had bad dreams all night. Tatooed face Maori women were after me all night long. Seriously! :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Kamagong To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:58:58 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Its is nice story, but reality is, Kamgong is a stick, that can be break, > shattered by stick and can be cut by a machete. It might not be cut is one > blow but it can be cut through. I know its sound good, but the fact that > matter is "Kamagong" is a hard wood but its brrittle in some points. I would agree. Bahi isn't quite as pretty, but a better hardwood for a battle stick. Rattan better than either kamagong or bahi for every day practice (more forgiving). Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:09:48 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Haka Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "the Haka was intimidating alone." and "If you watch the Maoris do their "hakas" or war chants you see them sometime do martial-like movements" To watch a Haka see any rugby international match featuring the New Zealand All Blacks. The TV will not show the whole Haka all the time, because beside the quasi-martial arts moves, there are others which are, ehm, not so polite! This will also give you a chance to watch the Maori players such as Jonah Lomu run over people. Mike Koblic, Campbell River, BC --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:14:40 -0800 (PST) From: NAVARRO FULBERT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Importing Kamagong is ILLEGAL Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GREETINGS BRETHREN! I hear that some one is importing Kamagong, right? Well, I'd like to warn him regarding that matter...Kamagong is a protected specie of hardwood here in the Philippines. The act of cutting down of Kamagong trees, sale, import or export of Kamagong without a permit from DENR is highly illegal. There was this person who was carrying a block of Kamagong measuring 2'x5"x3" was apprehended by the authorities on board a southbound bus here in Cebu when the bus passed a checkpoint (checkpoints are as common as mushrooms out of nowhere here)...I don't know what happened to him but my uncle told me that the man was questioned by the authorities where he got that block of wood, what is he planning to do with it, to whom is it for, does he have a permit for that...Kamagong was also known to be used for rifle butts, pistolgrip handles, knife and bolo handles...etc. Kamagong is a Filipino National Treasure. Almost everyone here in the Philippines knows the important value of Kamagong. I ask everyone here to please also value our national treasure and not to treat it as a mere collector's item and something to be profited from... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:19:54 -0500 From: Musilat@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Karambit Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello All, Unless you're talking extremes in design (like an ultra heavy broadsword or a tiny little pen knife)I think the skill of the practitioner, not the design of the blade, will pretty much always be the deciding factor in combat. Respectfully, Steve Kohn Torrance,CA --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:18:15 -0500 From: jason-couch@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bwang To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > First martial arts magazine I ever purchased had a large article about > Bwang. Badger- I'm sure it is going back a number of years, but do you recall what magazine it was? Jason Couch --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:52:30 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Hard woods Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Rocky, Throw it inside the water and see whether the wood will sink to the bottom. I have a spear left by my grandpa with the shaft made of this stuff, virtually indestructable. Regards, S. H. Wee > Message: 2 > From: "rocky pasiwk" > To: > Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:58:12 -0500 > Subject: [Eskrima] Re Hard woods > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > In regards to hard wood, I have never really bothered to learn much about > different woods, Even after 27 years of eskrima I just use what > ever I have. > I know about the more rings the stronger the rattan and all that stuff. > However I do have a stick Remy gave me some 20 years ago, he > called it Iron > wood its incredibly dense & heavy it seems stronger than almost anything > else I have come across. He said it belonged to his grandfather. > > My question: Is it really Iron wood, is there such a wood or is it > something else. Its very dark almost black. He said it had been > hardened. I > am just curious as to what it might be. > > Rocky --__--__-- Message: 12 From: tenrec@avcorner.com To: the list < Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:32:26 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re Bahi thread Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Personally, I like bahi, it is heavy and resilient (not sure of its actual tensile strength though)... bad news is it is also pretty much termite bait. When them termites get the munchies you can end up with bahi sawdust...thankfully I was able to dig up the little buggers before they bored all the way thru my one and only bahi "jo"... Anyone know where I can find "iron wood" (gasp)? tenrec@avcorner.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest