Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:24:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #415 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re/pushdaggers (lakanmdb@aol.com) 2. Re: MILF (Gints Klimanis) 3. Abu Bakr (TABULA RAZA) 4. Re: Pat Davies (Bill Lowery) 5. more human rights abuses in or. mindoro (Christian Farinetto) 6. Re: Maori martial arts (Andrew R Breton) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:17:05 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re/pushdaggers Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I can appreciate what Mr. Moskal is saying, but to generalize that he who carries a knife is running with a bad crowd etc. is nonsense, sure i amagine some are but also a vast amount are not. What i believe most people dont grasp is that this a violent world we live in, and it doesnt care who it touches, for that reason the old addage applies,"I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". I also hate the word fight, a fight in my view has rules regs and a ref there is no such thing as a fight when you must preserve your safety. Tuhon Leo Gaje told me to live through a violent confrontation you must be dirty and underhanded and willing to begat violence with a greater violence. I do agree however with the assesment of responsibility, never pull unless absolutely needed, stay away from danger spots etc. this all falls under dicipline. If you have the dicipline to learn the craft you must also learn the dicipline of control. Mike Blackgrave SanAntonio TX Pekititirsia PITBULLS --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 02:13:11 -0800 From: Gints Klimanis Organization: none To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: MILF Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) MILF? I believe this group of rebels was inspired by the American movie import "American Pie." --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 00:49:04 -1000 (HST) From: TABULA RAZA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Abu Bakr Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Actually the name "Abu Bakr" is a famous title according to my professors. You see the name often, it has the connotation of "glorious one." I took Islamic History two years ago, and the most famous Abu Bakr was Muhammad's good friend. Muhammad married his daughter by the way, Aisha, and she was the favorite of all the wives he married. If anyone else has any info supporting or challenging this, pls. share your knowledge. It's been a while since I've taken Islamic history, so I kinda forgot the details. But I am sure Abu Bakr was the first caliph after Muhammad. -Erwin Legaspi "All I have ever longed for in my life . . . a vision of God." - 9th and 10th century Sufi mystic Mansur Al-Hallaj "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." - Jiddu Krishnamurti --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:27:35 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Pat Davies Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >If we are here 'promoting' the arts of the Philipines and for some the culture of the philipinnes , I for one, think that there should be some sort of respect for the natural resources of the islands. < Read my post again. I am simply pointing out that if there is a demand someone will find a way to supply them. In the UK, traditionally we used ash for our fighting sticks. Same reason as in the RPI, it is freely available and cheap. Bill --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:06:48 +0100 (MET) From: Christian Farinetto To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] more human rights abuses in or. mindoro Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This may be of interest for those of us concerned by the political situation in the Philippines. Three members of Pamalakaya (Fil. fishermen's group) have been killed on Nov. 23. The latest spate of violence in Puerto Galera Town has claimed the lives of seven people and seven other are missing. In many cases armed men wearing bonnets and military fatigues were seen abducting the victims. Some of them where just shot or beheaded outside their house. Widespread human rights violations are committed in Southern Luzon and in the Oriental Mindoro region. In May 7, 2001 the government sent the AFP 204th Infantry Brigade to Oriental Mindoro in response to the natives demand of genuine land reform and respect of the native people's rigths (several mining projects of multinational companies plan to displace thousands of the Mangyans, a Mindoro tribe). Over forty summary executions took place, most of them members of progressive political parties or indigeneous people. The killings the armed forces admitted were classified as legitimate encounters with NPAs, although some of the bodies bore signs of torture. The abuses have affected over one thousand individuals and six hundred families in just 20 months, they include: indiscriminate firing, forcible evacuation, cruel treatment, harassment, frustrated killing and murder. Most of the cases brought to court have been dismissed for lack of evidence. Sources : Ibon foundation, Bayan Muna, Philippine Daily Inquirer, UP campuspress... Dr. Christian Farinetto Salamat, mabuhay ang Escrima at Silat. -- +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen! --__--__-- Message: 6 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:56:11 -0600 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Maori martial arts From: Andrew R Breton Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tuhon, Ray and Peter, I just visited the PCC this week-end, and had pretty much the same experience. Thankfully, I had a couple of emmisaries in the form of Omar and Tuhon go there before me, so I knew what to look for. Seriously, I was asking a gentleman who was making the weapons (a little pricey, but I can pick one up), he directly me to a haole, who directed me to a native Hawaiian. We talked a bit before he had to go back for another show. The spear was just like Tuhon said, with a funky addition. The spear has a "paddle" (as in canoe) on one end and a spear tip on the other. The actually fight with the spear tip back, using the paddle to parry and hit. When they have injured an opponent (or I guess if the paddle end is knocked aside) they turn so the spear end comes out like a two handed overhead thrust (#11 in Pekiti). I'm familar with several FMA and Indonesian staff systems. Tuhon McGrath showed (briefly, ahem) some staff work from Seguidas and Tim showed me staff work from a five attacks standpoint. Thier sparring looks more like the five attacks, but I'm not sure how much of that was traditional and how much of it was modernized for sparring by the students. I should also note that from what I can tell of the Hawaiian arts, there was both a throwing spear and a fighting spear. The fighting spear was made from a wood that was heavier than water. That's pretty heavy and it may limit some of the movements. The weapons we were working out with were demonstration weapons,a nd very light. The paddle (ping pong this time) is used like tuhon said with more of a wrist snap. They also block by turning the paddle to the side, as if you were doing a wrist curl or reverse wrist curl with your right hand, but with your hand turned counterclockwise a quarter turn (90 degrees). They would specifically target areas where the bones met (like the collarbone joint), as the penetration of the weapon was good there. He added that the area where the elbow joint folds is a target as well. The "ping pong war club" was shown as part of the dance show at the end. It had large arm motions, but I was unable to figure out to what extent the dances had changed the movements for dramatic purposes, either for the PCC or perhaps before. Jade is the ultimate stone to use for these weapons. It was taboo to have the weapon visible in public, so they wore it in thier belt behind them. They also have a "spear paddle". It looks like a shovel attached to the side instead of in the middle. They use it similar to the spear above, but also hooking and chopping the legs. One more thing that struck me with the Maori was dances was how much they struck themselves and stamped. I was thinking that this was very much like some of the Silat styles I know. Before I ran into the Maori guys, I got a chance to try out the Fuji war clubs. I ran into a Fuji-an who was interested in all aspects of his own culture, and willing to share some ideas on thier weapons. He let me try them, and a Japanese guy came along and he wanted to try them too. We were having a grand old time as a show was going on in another hut. Thier weapons are HEAVY, and I could really only wield about half of them one-handed. There were several kinds. One was basically a pineapple shaped piece of wood on a stick. Others were modeled after axes. All of them had sharp corners. They all also had pointed butts (punyos). My newfound Fuji-an friend didn't have information on how the clubs were historically used. In the dances, at least, they chambered a lot (like a #1 chamber) and went down on thier knees to bring the weapon back up. I paid attention to these because in some ways Pekiti is similar. They also did long arcing strikes using the full shoulder and hit the water with a splash, but just due to the fact they hit the water, I'm not ready to accept that as a combat technique. The clubs they used for the dances are a lot lighter, and I'm sure that had something to do with it. As for the original question: the Maori performers mentioned that they have a group here in Hawaii. Apparently, the art is alive and well, because they talked about going to New Zealand to compete in the championships there. It was interesting and hopefully I'll run into these guys again. Ray, don't feel like you missed too much. The PCC was fun and a visual sight, but not exceptional informative from a historical (as opposed to cultural) standpoint, with the exception of the people I talked with (who were very open and informative). The Bishop museum was a lot better from an historical information stance. Andy On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:42:59 -0800 "bill m" writes: > I was in Hawaii in '93 and visited the Polynesian Cultural Center > there. One > section of the center had a performance of Maori war dances. After > the show, > I went up to a performer and asked about Maori martial arts. > They used a short spear about 5 feet long. It was used as you would > expect > for a weapon of that length. > What stuck in my mind was their unusually shaped war club. It was > kind of > like a really thick and heavy ping-pong paddle. The performer was > familiar > with FMA and said that the Maoris didn't used their club with the > "long > strikes" of FMA. They used it with a short snap of the wrist. He > said in the > old days chiefs had war clubs made of stone that took a century to > grind > down to shape. If I remember right he said that the best ones were > made of > jade. The main targets were the crown of the head and I think the > jaw line > and collar bones. He said that there were a very few old men still > teaching > the old arts. > > Regards, > Tuhon Bill McGrath > Email: tuhonbill@pekiti-tirsia.com > PTI website: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! 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