Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 03:01:50 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #420 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Titles (Willy Lee) 2. Re: Stab or Slash (Beungood@aol.com) 3. Re: Slash v stab (Andrew Maddox) 4. George R's Slash vs. Stab Comments (al sardinas) 5. RE: slash vs stab (Carlo Arellano) 6. Presas Balintawak (Deveyra, Tito A.) 7. RE: Presas Balintawak (Mike Casto) 8. Re: Titles (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: eskrima From: Willy Lee Date: 02 Dec 2002 23:46:24 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Titles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I'm just starting my journey into FMA, and I've been wondering about titles. I've seen a bunch of different titles for teachers, e.g., Guro, Tuhon, Datu. Different systems seem to use different titles. Can anyone tell me about what the different titles mean or where they come from? Are they different due to regional usage differences or dialects? Is there a sort of standard hierarchy? Forgive the newbie question if it's frequently asked. =wl -- I've got a leaning towards pacifism, but it just doesn't work. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 06:57:09 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Stab or Slash Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think that arguement on Stab/Slash is irrelvant. I am of the opionion that it depends where the Stab or Slash is delivered on how devastating it will be to your attacker. I have seen slashes end confrontations as quick or quicker than stabs. I think it all depends on the spot it hits and what available angle you have that will allow you to slash or stab. My two cents.... Jack --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:46:48 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Slash v stab Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Slaughterhouse wrote: MK original note: >3) If stabbing is the preferred technique for achieving rapid disability in >an opponent, why were the three most preferred weapons for close combat in >WW II the kukri, the entrenching tool and the corpsman's axe. > >......These weapons would be very hard to mess up with. Two of these weapons are also common tools that are readily at hand in almost any close combat. Especially the E-tool. When it comes down to actual hand-to-hand combat in modern warfare (so I heard from my seniors in the Marine Corps when I was in), it's usually because things have gone seriously wrong, feces in large quantities is hitting the fan, and you (the grunt in the field) are grabbing the closest thing you can to fight with. "Preferred" is perhaps not the most accurate term for the original question - maybe you meant "common"? Although even that doesn't fit with the kukri, does it? I don't think very many people outside the Gurkha regiments actually had them in WW2. I could easily be wrong on all of this, of course. Except for the American troops using E-tools, I'm pretty sure that was as common as one hears. Of course, an M-1 (Garand) makes a pretty good close quarters weapon, with or without a bayonet... selamat, Andrew --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:07:44 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] George R's Slash vs. Stab Comments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #418, George R wrote " My PERSONAL opinion is Mr Keeting (and the Realfighting writer) has a MAJOR bias against Asian MA. Read the article again, paying close attention to his comments about being able to make $$ teaching as JAK vs being Asian. Apparently, he's had a hard time earning a living as an Asian MA instructor because he's white." This may be true and while we are at it, let me add the following: Mr. Keating and the RealFighting writer insults Pekit-Tirsia and the Dog Brothers and in general show no respect for FMA's. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Carlo Arellano To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:22:59 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: slash vs stab Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Slash vs stab, as if there was a choice between the two. Use the tool that is appropriate for the job, slash when you need to, thrust when you need to. Even in western swordsmanship the use of the thrust as the superior techniques is contraversial. The annals of western combat are replete with examples of the thruster getting his head chopped off by the very person he was skewering. The rise of the rapier came about when duels between the urban middle class became common. The thrust is a fast and efficient movement when dealing with one assailant, but thrusting into one body and then retracting only to thrust again my not be as efficient as getting two opponents with one slash. "Well it's the same with the thrust, well most people say if you stick your hand straight out you'll get it cut off, but if you do it with timing it's the most devastating moves there is, psychologically as well as physically." -Keating Any good technique can be devastating with good timing. My recommendation check out sayoc kali for knife fighting and be suspect of people that speak in absolutes. -Carlo --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:19:00 -0800 From: "Deveyra, Tito A." To: Subject: [Eskrima] Presas Balintawak Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >You are correct. Ernesto and Roberto, to my understanding, trained under >Remy for some time but Remy trained in Balintawak escrima. Ernesto and >Roberto did not. You would have to see the two of them move and feel >them "up close" to tell the difference. This is a revelation to me. But it is good to know the lineages of masters. Does anyone know how long Prof. Remy Presas studied Balintawak? Around what period and under who? Thanks Tito Deveyra --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Presas Balintawak Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:40:33 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://wmarnis.com/remy.html Doesn't give exact years (perhaps some of the Modern Arnis guys here can help), but it gives a good overview. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Deveyra, Tito A. [mailto:Tito@TFT.UCLA.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 2:19 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Presas Balintawak >You are correct. Ernesto and Roberto, to my understanding, trained under >Remy for some time but Remy trained in Balintawak escrima. Ernesto and >Roberto did not. You would have to see the two of them move and feel >them "up close" to tell the difference. This is a revelation to me. But it is good to know the lineages of masters. Does anyone know how long Prof. Remy Presas studied Balintawak? Around what period and under who? Thanks Tito Deveyra _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Titles To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:53:45 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I'm just starting my journey into FMA, and I've been wondering > about titles. I've seen a bunch of different titles for teachers, > e.g., Guro, Tuhon, Datu. Different systems seem to use different > titles. Can anyone tell me about what the different titles mean or > where they come from? Are they different due to regional usage > differences or dialects? Is there a sort of standard hierarchy? A standard hierarchy? No, not really. Different groups/styles/orgs will use different terms. Rather like the terms Master Instructor, Master, Grandmaster, Chiefmaster, GreatGrandmaster, Supreme GreatGrandmaster... adnauseam. A Master Instructor in one style may very well be senior to a Greatgrandmaster in another style, yet given the title name it doens't seem that way. IMHO, just view any and all of them as meaning 'instructor'. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest