Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 21:37:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #421 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. None of my business and stab/slash (Marc Denny) 2. Re: George R's Slash vs. Stab Comments (Mark F. Ward) 3. Re: Jim Keating (Terry Tippie) 4. Re: None of my business and stab/slash (Slaughterhouse) 5. Attachments (Ray Terry) 6. stab/slash and this Keating thing (lakanmdb@aol.com) 7. Titles (S. H. WEE) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:07:06 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] None of my business and stab/slash Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All > This may be true and while we are at it, let me add the following: Mr. > Keating and the RealFighting writer insults Pekit-Tirsia and the Dog > Brothers and in general show no respect for FMA's. > > Respectfully, > Al Sardinas > Student of Garimot System of Arnis I saw the piece and figure that what he thinks of us is none of my business and what he says reflects more on him than us :-) Concerning stab and slash: The only time I ever saw a knife draw blood was a Hell's Angel cut a guy from another club who had a chain (the kind used for locking up motorcycles) in front of a theater on 14th street where I was working security for a Greatful Dead concert back around 1970. The slashee ran, and then the slasher did too, probably to avoid the arrival of the police. I never worked another GD show-- they always had lots of HA in those days in the NYC area. In other words, here I do not speak from experience. That said, I offer to the conversation the following considerations/questions: 1) Knives are A LOT sharper than they used to be. Does this change the equation? 2) Prison "knives" are usually more of a point than an edge thus leading to a preference for stabbing and those who come out of this "training" may tend to prefer what they have successfully used, even when they have a good edge as well as a point. 3) One of my prison guard students told me of a hit wherein two hit one. One tackled the legs, and the other went to work stabbing. After some 30 stabs, they stopped and congratulated each other. The victim began twitching and they stabbed him some 20 more? That's a lot of stabs. Poor quality shank? Could be. Poor targeting? Probably. Was the guy dead? Yes. 4) Wouldn't stabbing tend to leave less blood all over the place, including on the killer? Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Mark F. Ward" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] George R's Slash vs. Stab Comments Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:59:38 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Al said: > This may be true and while we are at it, let me add the following: Mr. > Keating and the RealFighting writer insults Pekit-Tirsia and the Dog > Brothers and in general show no respect for FMA's. Re: the article, I agree. What's interesting is that the one and only seminar I attended with Jim Keating appeared to my non-expert eyes to be totally FMA based. We did straight-up FMA basic stickfighting for quite some time before we got out the training knives. That was about 1.5 - 2 years ago. I didn't see or hear anything that I would call critical of the FMA's. Perhaps he and the author 'got on a roll' and had a little bitchfest. I don't know, I wasn't there. I would also add that while Mr. Keating is a, well, interesting person and said some pretty off-the-wall stuff towards the end of the class, I did get value from his seminar - I have certainly been around worse instructors. With regard to slash vs. stab: Yes, a slash across the neck can be quite debilitating. However, if the slashee pulls back and the blade skates across the front of the neck, you get a neat scar, not necessarily a down-and-out bad guy. I've seen a couple of cons with scars like that. I agree with all those who say use whatever tool is at hand and is more appropriate. Regarding the khukuri - you can stab with one. My friend Tommy 'The Whip' Meadows showed me something he learned from Guro Dan: just place your support hand on the spine of the blade aft of the 'crook'. It works like a charm and actually feels pretty natural. In addition, your support hand may already be there if you are blocking a heavy weapon. The resulting stab is very powerful. Did the Gurkhas do much of this? I doubt it. From my research, it appears that there wasn't much in the way of training given to most Gurkhas regarding the use of the khukuri. On the other hand, how much are you going to teach a guy in a few weeks about the weapon/tool he's had in his hand since he was a child? There is no question as to their effectiveness in combat. As an aside, the book 'Gurkhas at War' is an outstanding collection of oral histories of the Gurkhas in action. That plus 'Tales of the Victoria's Cross' makes some pretty hair-raising reading. mfw --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:58:57 -0800 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Terry Tippie Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Jim Keating Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It has been quite a while since I last ran into Jim Keating when he was a local guy teaching karate in Eastern Washington. At the time I thought he was a good enough guy. Kinda fragile--and not well suited to the bangin' with empty hands we like to do in Muay Thai--but a decent guy. But hardly any weapons at all at that time. Years later he re-emerged as a knife instructor with a marketing hype that makes him out to be a super-deadly commando-type guy. I'm not sure how he got from here to there in the years between. The curriculum I've seen him teach looks like fairly standard stuff--nothing you wouldn't see elsewhere. Thus, I was left kinda scratching my head about the marketing spin stuff. It seems kind of over the top to me. Um, has he actually fought anybody lately? Respectfully, Terry Tippie Pacifica, CA USA --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Slaughterhouse" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] None of my business and stab/slash Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:45:49 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I know I had a picture taken of my arm after the slaughterhouse accident (after stitching). I lost a LOT of blood on that stab. The blood actually hit the ceiling (approx. 15 to 20 feet) and my first instinct was to cover the wound with pressure. The doctors were at first unsure if I would survive due to the amount of blood I lost, then I was upgraded to the possibility of just losing the arm (on a stab wound yet!) which I didn't (Thank you forever Royal Alexandria!!!). Is there any way I can add the picture as an attachment and maybe you all can figure it out? Just an after thought, on our kill floor we used to use a downward cut on the jugular as opposed to a horizontal slash to kill and bleed hogs. Cutting horizontally across the throat is harder, the muscles around the throat tend to "seal" preventing heavy blood loss as opposed to a downward cut. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:16:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Attachments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > .... Is there any way I can add the picture as an > attachment and maybe you all can figure it out? .... Sorry, no. Attachments cannot be sent thru the list to those subscribed. That is what helps to keep us virus free. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:46:30 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] stab/slash and this Keating thing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings Although I have never been slashed I have been stabbed. Many years ago while working as a bouncer in a topless joint, I received a stab wound in the left pectoral muscle from an ice pick, it penetrated through my leather I was wearing and went in about 1/2 of an inch, and believe me thats far enough. The blood loss was what amazed me in hind site. For such a small puncture, or what appeared to be at the time. I remember my adrenaline was so high because I was in the middle of an altercation with a couple drunk patrons, when there buddy shanked me fro the side. It was only a few minutes after that I recall the shock, blood etc. Believe me when I say when you get stuck or cut for real, its all a painful experiance. As far as the Keating thing my opinion is this. I dont care what he teaches or how good he advertises professes etc. etc. To me thats all paump and circumstance Show me, explain to me, what you can do, break it down and tell me why you do what you do move like you do etc. Or as Tuhon Gaje says explain to me this technology. Mike B. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:56:54 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Titles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FYI, all those titles are rarely used by local SEA martial artists. They are created specifically for oversea markets. However, if you are trully interested, below are the recommended ranks: 1. Murid/Pelajar 2. Guru/Guro 3. Pendekar/Tuan/Tuhon 4. Datuk/Dato/Datu 5. Tan Sri 6. Tengku 7. Tun 8. Sultan/Raja/Rajah 9. Duli Yang Maha Mulia Seri Paduka Baginda Yang Dipertuan Agong (The One and Only Holiest & Mightiest Lord) Warning!! Uses of illegitimate Title No. 4 and above in SEA might get you into serious legal complications. Sincerely, S. H. Wee > Hi all, > > I'm just starting my journey into FMA, and I've been wondering > about titles. I've seen a bunch of different titles for teachers, > e.g., Guro, Tuhon, Datu. Different systems seem to use different > titles. Can anyone tell me about what the different titles mean or > where they come from? Are they different due to regional usage > differences or dialects? Is there a sort of standard hierarchy? > > Forgive the newbie question if it's frequently asked. > > =wl --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest