Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:35:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #439 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re:Vol 9 #437-Training In The Philippines (Bart Hubbard) 2. RE: Training in Philippines (joseph de condappa) (Patrick Davies) 3. Re:Vol 9 #438 - Inosanto LaCoste (Bart Hubbard) 4. body odor? (C. Herrman) 5. Re: body odor? (George R) 6. Datu details (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Bart Hubbard" To: Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:25:29 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Vol 9 #437-Training In The Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Joe, I would suggest spending time in the Philippines to study. It will change the way that you view the FMA and give you a depth of knowledge in a short period of time that would, in some circumstances, take years to get. There are a lot of places to go. Manila has good training, but I would suggest Cebu City and specifically Doce Pares under Dionisio Canete. You can contact them at: Doce Pares International World Headquarters 30 Eagle Street, Sto.Niņo Village Banilad, Cebu City 6000 Philippines (63-32)346-0433 (63-32)344-3028 www.doceparesinternational.com Cebu City is still not so large as Manila and is very safe. Also there is an overt FMA culture there that you would really have to search out in Manila although it is there too. Doce Pares International is not the only club in Cebu City, Grandmaster Cacoy Canete has his organization, the Doce Pares Federation. Cebu is also the home of Balintawak and there are many clubs. If you can train full time for a few months, I say do it. Many will say that you don't need to go to the Philippines, but I believe there is so much to gain by doing so, that if you have the capability you should do so. When you are training, it is very easy for some people to say "in the Philippines they do this..." and "the Filipinos believe this..." and so on. But if you've been there and trained with the people in the homeland of the art, you will have a better ability to discern between the fanciful and the factual in your training outside the Philippines. For instance, when I was in high school over there, we spent 6 weeks training in Arnis as our Physical Education subject. When I was training here in the US it was a common misconception that the FMA were dying in the Philippines. As most know now, over the last century there has been quite a healthy practice of FMA over there, with no sign of "dying" going on. I was not a victim of that misconception because of my experience there. That's just one example. Anyway, my suggestion is GO! Just my thoughts, Bart Hubbard --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Patrick Davies To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:03:28 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Training in Philippines (joseph de condappa) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Message: 2 From: "joseph de condappa: I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the whether it is a good idea for a beginner to try and train in the Phillipines..............I would like to take a sabatical and try training fulltime for a few months. From what little research I have done I could afford to do this in the Philippines with my current savings. Training this way certainly helps but I would advise you look at your personal circumstances and the infrastructure of where you plan to go. Without decent accommodation etc could make the trip a nightmare and more value is learnt from the life experience rather than the training. Cant comment on the Philippines although other reports are positive. Political and world conditions may warrant caution on where you go though. Im off to the backhills of Arkansas for a weeks solid training in February and I know the exercise is worthwhile. Maybe not on top of the list of exotic places but it will certainly develop my martial arts ability. Its who you learn from, not the place, in my opinion. Good luck. Pat Davies Aberdeen UK Seasons greetings to all. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Bart Hubbard" To: Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:15:54 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Vol 9 #438 - Inosanto LaCoste Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Joe, I have to agree with Ray, that you're not going to find any Inosanto LaCoste blend in the Philippines. Recently some styles have begun using the term Kali, but it's not a Filipino term. When you go, they'll call it Arnis or Eskrima or whatever the name of the style is (Balintawak, Lema, Olistrisimo, etc) and rarely Kali. Kali is widely considered the "American" word for Arnis. As far as differentiating Eskrima from other arts as "complete" or not, I would have to say this is an "iffy" subject. Personally, I don't think there's such a thing as a "complete" martial art at all. But eskrima does include knife, empty hands training, locking, kicking, grappling, etc. So if by "complete" you mean that it does more than just weapons, yes eskrima is a "complete" art. Of course it specializes and emphasizes weaponry. Good luck in your training. Bart Hubbard --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:43:53 -0600 From: "C. Herrman" To: Subject: [Eskrima] body odor? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, I have a student who is very nice, wears a clean uniform, and smells. I'm not sure if he is aware of the problem or not. I'd like to let him know *without offending him* and offer a solution. I don't want to make him uncofortable, or worse, lose him as a student. Is there a fix to this problem? Anyone have any advice?? Encountered a similar situation??? Thanks in advance, C. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: George R To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] body odor? Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Friday 20 December 2002 05:43 pm, you wrote: > Hello, > > I have a student who is very nice, wears a clean uniform, and smells. I'm > not sure if he is aware of the problem or not. I'd like to let him know > *without offending him* and offer a solution. I don't want to make him > uncofortable, or worse, lose him as a student. Is there a fix to this > problem? Anyone have any advice?? Encountered a similar situation??? Ask him what he does for a living. He might be doing as I do and coming straight from work and bringing his work smells with him. I sweat profusely with any physical activity, so I'm fairly sure somedays I'm a little smelly. I do carry baby wipes, doesn't do much for the hair, but it helps with the B.O. George --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:29:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Datu details Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Datu news from Indonesia. Fowarding... The Edge Weekly > Opinions Radzuan's Reason: Overproduction of the titled By Radzuan Halim 10/12/2002 Every time the honours list comes out, eager middle-class Malaysians pore over it to see which of their friends will undergo a name (and personality) change. Once a person becomes a Datuk or Tan Sri, their long-serving parent-given name disappears overnight and they will henceforth be addressed as "Datuk" or "Tan Sri". All the office letterheads, telephone lists, call cards and club cards will have to be changed overnight. Mind you, the changes could not have been made or planned beforehand because protocol requires that the elevation take place only following the official announcement. It is a most serious breach of protocol amounting to l=A8=A8se majest=A8 if it is found that someone announces or even hints of an impending datukship before the appropriate time. On one occasion, when the wife of the prospective politician Datuk was unfortunate enough to preannounce the husband's impending datukship, the award was withdrawn (although it turned out to be merely deferred for a year). An old friend calling the new Datuk's personal assistant (PA) and asking for Encik so-and-so will be tersely reminded, "There is no Encik so-and-so here, but there is a Datuk so-and-so." It is as if the Encik had died. There is also a reverse side to this. A friend of mine went back to his office to find an urgent call from a Datuk X. Since he did not know any Datuk X, he merely assumed that it was a miscall and did not bother to find out details or call back. Only later did he realise that the call was from a newly minted Datuk associate. At the office, there will be the need not only to change the boss' name to Datuk but also to add the prefix, "Yang Berbahagia" when addressing letters and in official speeches. Yang Berbahagia is usually shortened to "Y Bhg" and is not to be confused with "Yang Berhormat" or "YB" which is reserved for Members of Parliament, state assemblymen and senators. Following a datukship, the new honouree will also be busy with calls for dinner parties in honour of the appointment and with press congratulations. Sometimes the congratulations will go on for weeks and hundreds of thousands of ringgit will be spent by associates and well-wishers. The PA would, of course, cut these out and arrange them in an album. The new Datuk will usually dismiss these efforts and expense as unnecessary and feign embarrassment over all the fuss. On the homefront, the change in status is even more eagerly awaited. Some reluctant Datuk had been known to utter, "I'm not that keen but you know lah my wife, nak sangat jadi Datin." Now the former Puan will have to be addressed as Datin by all friends, relations and helpers. A careless call using the old name would be met by an icy stare and frantic complaints to mutual friends. The new Datin will now only refer to the husband in the third person. So, she will instruct the servant, "Datuk would like to eat curry today." As you would expect, there is a serious side to the whole datukship issue. In recent years, there has been public disquiet over the fact that there are too many datukships being awarded. It is said that at the rate we are going, almost anybody of note and then some will become Datuks. In Malaysia, all 13 states award datukships (for the whole of the UK, there is only one awarder). It is also odd for datukships to be awarded by non-ruler states since the title Datuk is equivalent to knights or chieftains serving a royal monarch. The federal government had also got into the act, bringing the total of awarders to 14. Previously, federal Datuks were converted to Tan Sris to distinguish the federal from state Datuks. Now, the federal government is also awarding datukships in ever-increasing numbers. You would think that 14 Datuk-issuing houses are far too many. That is not so for the Malaysian demand for a datukship is simply insatiable. Royal houses in the Philippines have also entered the fray. However, such awards were frowned upon by the local Datuks. They have a point. The Philippine royal houses do not enjoy sovereignty status. Furthermore, it is not proper to attach a title issued by a foreign government to one's name. So, an American awarded the equivalent of the UK knighthood is not addressed as "Sir". It is appropriate for an Australian or New Zealander awardee to adopt "Sir" since the Queen is his head of state. Coming back to the public disquiet over datukships, the objections can be analysed along several lines. First, many awardees had obviously not displayed sufficient public service, whether to charities, the government administration, military, professions, commerce and so forth. Many are simply not known for anything at all while a few even have questionable records. Second, many awardees have no particular nexus to the respective awarding state, being neither resident by birth nor having significantly benefited the state in any meaningful way. You might ask: What right does the public have to take such critical interest in the mat-ter? The answer is, it is the public that has to put up with the elaborate form of address, giving priority in sitting arrangements and according gracious respect at all times. The awarding state only needs to award the title at one (glittering) ceremony but the public will have to put up with the extra efforts on a daily basis from then on. Furthermore, the public has the right to see to it that all national resources, of which the ability to award titles is one, are expended and utilised in the best way possible. The Malaysian public is not inclined to make formal complaints over this matter since many are content to leave such affairs to those better qualified to handle them. The lack of formal complaints and open discussions, however, has resulted in something far worse - cynicism, gossip and wild theories. Many members of the public are prepared to believe that some datukships are being "purchased" by "Datuk Bayar". I asked a long-time Datuk whether there is such a thing as "Datuk Bayar". He replied (I can't determine whether jokingly or not), "Bukan saja bayar tapi bayar by instalment pun ada." He even coined the award "DIPS - Datuk Instalment Payment Scheme". I leave it to the readers to decide whether Datuk Bayars exist or not and if so in what numbers. From time to time, we do read of scams and police reports related to the award of titles. Such scams do not seem to indicate culpability on the part of the awarding authorities. To avoid public misgivings, it is desirable that all awards for datukships be accompanied by a short statement giving a reason or reasons for the award, such as "for contribution to the arts", "promoting Malaysia's exports" and so on. The awarding of datukships to those not known for anything at all should be stopped. On a less serious note let me share with readers some additional thoughts on the subject. An official of an international banking agency made a lightning one-day visit to the country. The visit was packed with meetings with various senior officials. For the whole day he met Datuks, Datuks Seri and Tan Sris. Only towards the evening did he meet an Encik. He remarked to a colleague, "That's the first 'Encik' I've met all day. He must be of particular importance." There is a noticeable trend to award posthumous Datuk and Tan Sri awards of late. I can understand the need for a posthumous award for valour as in the Victoria Cross or our own Pingat Gagah Berani, but a posthumous Datukship seems very odd. Many deserving prospective Nobel Prize winner have never won the award due to untimely demise. Anyway, I told a friend that a posthumous award must be distinguished from an award given while alive. The deceased awarded while alive is to be referred to as "the late Tan Sri". The posthumously awarded should be referred to as "Tan Sri the late". For Muslims, the equivalent would be "allahyarham Tan Sri" to be distinguished from "Tan Sri Allahyarham", the latter being untitled when pronounced dead. Female Datuks. The word "Datuk" has definite masculine, even "warrior" origins and connotations. As such, addressing a woman, even a very senior and awe-inspiring one, as "Datuk" leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth. However, I don't see any easy solution to this problem. Calling her "Datin Paduka" does not do justice to the title since "Datin" is the equivalent of "Ladyship". Even the British "Dame" for female knighthoods is not satisfactory. The solution is to carry on with the present practice, hoping that over time, the masculine undertone of "Datuk" becomes eroded. The main problem with female Datuks, however, remains the predicament of their untitled husbands. A friend who has an ambitious and hardworking wife is living in fear of the wife's impending elevation. Already his close friends have been referring to him as "Pa' Datin". Lest anyone still has doubts about the explosive increase in the award of titles, I will end with some observations culled from Malaysia's Year Book published almost 40 years ago. Of 15 Cabinet ministers, only five were Datuks. The finance minister was an Encik Tan Siew Sin, JP. The Right Honourable Prime Minister, the Tunku, was, of course, above mere awards and as a ruler's son was styled, "Yang Teramat Mulia". None of the six deputy ministers was a Datuks. Out of 46 senators, there were 14 Datuks. Parliament (excluding ministers and deputy ministers) had only seven Datuks. In the senior civil service, there were also very few Datuks. Most ministries had only one Datuk and some none at all. At present, one would not be surprised to find all of the Cabinet, deputy ministers and Parliamentary secretaries to be titled. Up to three-quarters of state assembly members are titled while almost 100 per cent of state executive councillors are titled. Ordinary Malaysians, being extremely respectful and proper, can be expected to continue to accord the titled the usual courtesy and salutations. However, the awarding authorities should consider the burden imposed on the untitled citizenry (so many to render special respect to) as well as the dilution caused to the image and authority of the title itself. --------------------------------------------------------------- Radzuan Halim, former merchant banker, now teaching MBA and law students --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry, http://MartialArtsResource.com, http://Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest