Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 03:01:51 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #448 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Holiday Greetings to all (decuerdas@softcom.net) 2. Re: Christmas Wishes (Bill Lowery) 3. Kali & other stuff (William Schultz) 4. Last yip , , , for now (Marc Denny) 5. Arnis/escrima/kali and Filipino knights (jay de leon) 6. Master of Arnis, Kali and Eskrima (1993) (GatPuno@aol.com) 7. Ketones & Performance (Khalkee@netscape.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: decuerdas@softcom.net To: Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:04:22 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Holiday Greetings to all Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Holiday Greetings from Tenio's DeCuerdas Escrima from Stockton Calif. Head Master Arthur González --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:05:46 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Christmas Wishes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all from the Laban Baston Eskrima Club, UK. Bill Lowery --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "William Schultz" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:03:00 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Kali & other stuff Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings. It's been a while since I posted anything on the Digest. Family, starting a business, moving , and training are all I have time for these days. I don't get on-line all that much lately. Just a couple of points to add: On Kali, Eskrima, or Arnis. I use the name: Philippine Combative Martial Arts (Kali-Eskrima-Arnis). The different instructors that I have had used one or more of all them. As Rocky said, I use what they used. Anyone who has trained with me will tell you that I will point out where a particular strategy, technique or drill came from (give credit to person or system)and will sometimes show differences or similarities between the different styles (tangents, eh Sovann?). As far as history goes, I know the basic historical line but there are too many variations/versions from system to system that I choose to leave that to the true historians. If a student asks, I'll tell them basically what I know, but will preface that with the comment that they should really delve into it and do the historical research on their own. An interesting note: I was unpacking some of my tapes the other day and came across; (front cover) "FEAR NO MAN ON EARTH" master Kali-Silat's Deadly Skills. (Side Cover) KALI, The Doce Pares System Espada Y Daga By: GM Dionisio A. Canete, Esquire. Cebu, Philippines. Chairman, World Federation. Tape (H). (Back Cover) Kali-Silat, Mother of the Asian Martial Arts. Kali-Silat is the deadly art of Philippine and Indonesian warriors. This training is not offered in any Karate, Gung-fu, Aikido, Judo, or Jujitsu art. Taught by experienced instructors, this system gives you striking techniques, weapons, forms, and other skills made popular by Bruce Lee's film classic, "Enter The Dragon". Kali was first recorded in history for defense against Magellan and the Spanish Conquistadors. So feared, Kali practice was banned by the Spanish. Filipino masters integrated the movements of Kali into mock battle scenes depicted in native dances and plays to preserve their art. During WWII, American Marines in the Philippines were issued the .45 caliber pistol to knock down Kali warriors skilled in this sinewy art. Easy to follow, the system of Kali-Silat emphasizes evasive techniques and drills to strengthen the body, mind, and spirit. While learning highly effective techniques for self defense, individuals shape, tone and condition their bodies through an exhilarating cardiovascular dance like work out. Based upon a philosophy of unity and well being, Kali-Silat is quickly becoming the favorite sport and exercise for people of all ages who want to be fit, confident, and have self protection skills. Other than this tape, I have never heard of Doce Pares refered to as Kali. Eskrima yes, Kali no. The label on the tape itself came off quite a while ago so I don't know when it was released. BTW, there is also a couple of guys on this tape fighting DB style with just fencing masks on. Kind of short sticks, but still going for it. On people thinking that the FMA's are just banging sticks: I just recently re-located to Rhode Island and have discovered that, at least in this state (as far as I can find so far), not too many people are very familiar with the FMA. The people who have approached me about teaching have all come from southern Massachusetts. Most of the schools that I have checked into (all Karate or TKD) in the area have either never heard of them, or have made comments like; "oh, that's with the sticks, right?". Or I mention Muay Thai and I get a look like I'm a nut who wants to plant an elbow or knee into their heads. Now, mind you, I haven't walked in to peoples schools saying something like; "I am ranked such and such and I want to teach FMA at your school!" I did send a few e-mails out when I first arrived to see if there would be an interest in learning FMA. I have just approached it like; "Hi. my name is... and I teach this and I'm looking to get together with some people and do some training and exchange ideas...". Not interested or in one case the guy started acting like I was challenging him by entering his school (that was actually pretty funny). The one guy who advertises teaching FMA and JKD didn't respond to my e-mails about working out and/or exchanging ideas. Well, looks like I'll have to shake things up around here. I guess I was spoiled living in an area where the FMA was well known and widely practiced and people from different arts didn't have a problem getting together to train and exchange ideas and mix it up. Actually, that was the whole basis of the Mongrel Combative Arts Club. Instructors and advanced students of different arts getting together with the main focus of training FMA, but also sharing and testing ideas from our different back grounds (hence the name: Mongrel). Ok, I'm getting off my soap box now. Train Hard! Train Smart! William Schultz Philippine Combative Martial Arts Mongrel Combative Arts Club _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:04:27 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Last yip , , , for now Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All > > Once again, someone said something negative about the use of the term > "Kali". Mark Harrel (of Villabrille Kali I believe) defended it, GP Abon disagreed > with it, etc etc. Now the wave of barking rolls past my fence and I bark too. > ...You do it your way, we do it ours > > > I believe that "someone" that "said something negative about the use of the > term 'Kali'" was me. And this is what I said: > > >I have to agree with Ray, that you're not going to find any Inosanto > > >LaCoste blend in the Philippines. Recently some styles have begun > >using the term Kali, but it's not a Filipino term. When you go, >they'll > >call it Arnis or Eskrima or whatever the name of the style is (Balintawak, > >Lema, Olistrisimo, etc) and rarely Kali. Kali is widely > >considered the "American" word for Arnis. > > What was negative about that? I don't know. I could have said "it's not a > generally used Filipino term" instead of "it's not a Filipino term". With this I would have been a happy sleeping dog. Concerning the meaning of "kali" in Tagolog, no doubt your dictionary is right, but if I have it right, those of us who use the term don't think of it as a Tagolog word. I am quite willing to be educated further in this regards (GP Abon?) but my impression is that Tagolog speakers tend to have a larger view of the role of Tagolog as a lengua franca than do non-Tagolog speakers. Laboring under the belief of the universality of Tagolog, I sedulously worked on it when I was in Olongagpo, Luzon but was rebuffed when I tried using it in Bacolod, Negros Occ. I confess to feeling discouraged. Hell, so many Filipinos speak English better than I am likely to speak their particular dialect , , , it seems like English is the true lengua franca of the Philippines anyway, , , I continue to be amazed by how many Filipinos speak not just two or three languages but many more than that-- and utterly baffled by how they seem to shift from one to the next in one conversation. I have my hands full with Spanish and a silly smattering of Mandarin. > It is a Filipino > term, Thank you. , , , > For the record all I wanted to do with my statement about Kali was to give a > foreigner a piece of advice that will be useful for him to find training in the > Philippines. , , , As I reread the thread I see I failed to note that this was the thrust of your post. I agree with this point of yours-- most people will not recognize the term "kali" and that to find FMA the terms Arnis and Eskrima are more likely to yield results. > Anyway the best to everyone and Merry Christmas. > Bart Hubbard Likewise, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:23:03 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Arnis/escrima/kali and Filipino knights Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (1) This might sound as if I am joining the chorus of GatPuno Abon, Leo Salinel and Bart Hubbard, but I posted this a long time ago during one of the early reiterations of the arnis/eskrima/kali debate. In the 25 years or so of living in the Philippines, (with half of these years active in the martial arts), I heard only the terms arnis and eskrima in discussions with other martial artists or in everyday conversations. I lived and travelled extensively in Luzon most of my life there, but also lived and travelled in Mindanao and Visayas for a couple of years. I am also well aware of Grand Tuhon Gaje's claim of kali's tribal roots, but that is from my recent readings here in the U.S. (2) Leo Salinel wrote "Since when did we Flips have knights?" Hey, my dad was a member of the Knights of Columbus in R.P., and he even had a cape and a sword. Of course, we kids were not allowed to play with the sword, and I never saw him train with it, much less execute a "reverse knight stick." Levity aside, even though this is probably the third go-around I have seen on this "debate," I enjoy the "barking." This is an instance when you could almost say that truth is relative. It is interesting to see how each one has different views depending on his personal experience, whether you learned the FMA's here in the U.S., somebody from R.P. like Leo Salinel, people who have lived and trained both in R.P. and the U.S., like Gat Puno Abon and myself, etc. On that note, Manigong Bagong Taon sa inyong lahat (Happy New Year to all). Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf --__--__-- Message: 6 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:18:56 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Master of Arnis, Kali and Eskrima (1993) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 12/26/02 1:41:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > Woof, > Crafty Dog: > > PS: Gat Puno, you mention PG Edgar Sulite's book "Masters of Arnis"-- umm, > not to be disagreeable, but isn't the title of the book "Masters of Kali, > Arnis and Eskrima"? Regardless, I look forward to continuing to learn > more > about the FMA and the Philippines from your posts. > > Guro Marc Denny, Thank you Marc, for the correction, the complete title is "Masters of Arnis Kali and Eskrima by Edgar Sulite (Soccorro Publication 1993) I have to admit, he did a fine job of documenting this masters.. Again is very good and informative works. I missed my chance to say it to Edgar Sulite, big loss to FMA community.. I also missed my chance to see him in action live.. Salamat, thanks Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:36:14 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Ketones & Performance Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yah, the brain can use ketones but it is NOT the best way to go. In fact, given the effects that ketone use has on a number of performance measures we could consider the state characterized by ketone usage as a 'toxic' state. When we use ketones for fuel, thinking slows and mentalreaction time deteriorates, muscles also will not respond quickly. Check out http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/nutriquest/ketosis.html __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry, http://MartialArtsResource.com, http://Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest