Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:14:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #6 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Happy New Year! (and Barely Literate FMA Masters) (Leo Salinel) 2. RIP GM Ben Luna Lema (Marc Denny) 3. Re: A Rose by Any Other Name (Young Forest) 4. Re: RIP GM Ben Luna Lema (Ray Terry) 5. Arnold Battle of Columbus (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:07:43 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Happy New Year! (and Barely Literate FMA Masters) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guys, The kali/arnis/escrima and "proper FMA terminology" is JUST AN ACADEMIC DEBATE. I thank GatPuno and this other guy for being objective and calm about our opinions. I guess I just tend to be careless or exaggerated with my words. When I said that most FMA masters are "barely literate", I am not disparaging them or insulting them but I am stating a mere fact. I think it should be obvious to us that martial arts and education, FOR THE MOST PART, do not mix. I say "for the most part" because there are exceptions, like Dr. David Wink, Ph.D., Top Dog's friend/sparring partner in Pekiti Tirsia who is a molecular biologist (?) or something, Atty. Dionisio "GM Diony" Canete, who like me is a member of the Philippine Bar, several other Filipino lawyers here around the country who also do arnis, Judge Demosthenes Magallanes of Bacolod, Negros Occidental, Dr. Loki Jorgenson, Ph.D., who is a physicist-mathematician and who teaches Pekiti-Tirsia in Vancouver, Canada, and a whole lot of others. But they are the few exceptions to the rule. For the most part, people who do martial arts AND ARE GOOD FIGHTERS at that usually are unschooled. The reason? Time spent studying takes a lot of time out from training in martial techniques, and vice versa. That's why most FMA "manongs" here and abroad are usually not even high school graduates. AGAIN, I DO NOT SAY THIS TO INSULT THEM BECAUSE I LIKE EVERYONE ELSE RESPECTS THEM--I SAY THIS TO ACKOWNLEDGE AN OBJECTIVE FACT. Example, GM Juanito Lacoste could barely read and write. GM Angel Cabales, in Mark Wiley's words, "had no formal education and claimed that whatever knowledge he had came from the streets". Bruce Lee himself didn't finish college. I bet if Bruce Lee went on to graduate school or took an MBA or went to law school, 80% chances are we'd have no JKD or Bruce Lee, just another balding, overweight, bespectacled Chinese-American bureaucrat/lawyer/businessman/professor (is this perhaps one major reason why Guro Crafty "outgrew" legal practice? :) ) I say 80% cuz the other 20% chance is that he'd end up like Dr. Jorgenson,Atty. Diony Canete, Judge Magallanes, Dr. David Wink, etc. Make no mistake. I am not saying an education is necessary to be credible in the martial arts. Education has NOTHING TO DO with fighting skill or teaching skill. I'd rather train with a totally illiterate old "manong" who can fight very very well than train with a guy who has an A.B., LL.B., Th.D., Ph.D., M.B.A., D.D., M.D., D.M.D. after his name but can't teach or fight at all. What I just said in my previous post is that FOR PURPOSES OF ACADEMIC AND HISTORICAL CLARITY AND RELATIVE ACCURACY in trivial stuff/data/information, your best bet is to compare what we get from the old "manongs" with what academic research by our peers in the FMA WHO SPECIALIZE in these matters have to say. And just like my kababayan who said that these terms are just names, I AGREE. The terms are just terms and shouldn't really concern us as much as our techniques and stuff. The discussion began only as an exchange among the more CONCEPT-ORIENTED (I guess these are the best words I can use so as to avoid another controversy lest somebody think I'm insulting the rest) among us. Happy New Year, GatPuno! BTW, I enjoy your website. ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 06:20:03 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] RIP GM Ben Luna Lema Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A Sad Howl: It is reported on the "Peak" mailing list based in the Philippines that GM Benjamin Luna Lema has died. I only met him once, at a seminar at the Inosanto Academy, and was impressed. On behalf of the Dog Brothers and DBMA, we sincerely hope his students carry on and we extend our sympathies to his family, friends and students. Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:55:19 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: A Rose by Any Other Name Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >As the majority of the people in the U.S practice a blend of the indiginous >arts of the Phillipines, I would think that just simply calling what they >do "The Filipino Martial Arts" would suffice. While it is not system >specific, it does at least give credit to the source. Pretty much what I do. Although my original exposure to the FMA was Modern Arnis (well, really it was Dan Inosanto's book, but I only found a guro about 10 years later), what I teach and practice is so far removed from that basis it would be disingenuous of me to call it by that name anymore. FMA is my default term. Badger Ottawa ON _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RIP GM Ben Luna Lema To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 06:53:35 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > It is reported on the "Peak" mailing list based in the Philippines that GM > Benjamin Luna Lema has died. I only met him once, at a seminar at the > Inosanto Academy, and was impressed. On behalf of the Dog Brothers and > DBMA, we sincerely hope his students carry on and we extend our sympathies > to his family, friends and students. This sad news was just independently confirmed via another source. Another of the greats is gone... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:25:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Arnold Battle of Columbus Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Someone was asking about the ABOC (Arnold Battle of Columbus) in late Feb. See www.wuma.com/aboc for more info. FWIW, the Kali (what is that? :) rules to be used are as follows... Match Beginning The referee will shout yumukod and the fighters will give their respective salutes to the referee. The referee will then call for a second yumukod and the fighters will bow to each other. The bout will begin with the competitors standing at a distance that shall be measured by crossing the tips of the sticks for ready without stretching. The fighters will cross-sticks in the guard position and the referee shall break the sticks apart from below and yell fight. The timer will begin at that point and will stop timing upon the referee's whistle. Duration of Rounds All bouts will consist of three (3) rounds of forty-five (45) seconds each with thirty (30) second rests between rounds A bout may go to an extra round based on a tie, but only five (5) rounds will be allowed as a maximum. Timekeepers will signal the end of each round by tossing a bean bag into the ring and the referee will enforce end of round by blowing the whistle and breaking the competitors apart if necessary. All hits AFTER the timekeeper's signal will NOT be counted, however, any action occurring at the same time as the whistle WILL be counted. Stopping the Bout The referee or either competitor may stop the bout during a round. Competitors must back away from the opponent, kneel and cover their heads with both hands/arms and must face the opponent the entire time for safety. The referee may stop the round at any time for injuries, equipment adjustment or failure, after a takedown, after a disarm or when a competitor commits a prohibited attack. The clock will be stopped only when a significant break occurs in the action, when the referee can return the fighters immediately to the action, the timing will continue unbroken. Legal Targets and Attacks Fighters may strike with stick, hands or feet and may strike any body parts above the knees, except groin and neck. Kickers kick at their own risk - YOUR OPPONENT MAY BLOCK THE KICK WITH A STRIKE. The fighter may hit to the back of opponent's body, as long as the fighters are facing each other. Trapping, holding for a disarm and grappling for a takedown will be allowed under a five-second (5) limit. Prohibited Attacks No direct strike to any targets on the back of the body - head, neck, back, legs. No thrusting. No striking to or below the knees. No grappling on the head or neck. No grabbing of the face mask. Hitting is NOT permitted to the headgear with feet or hands, STICK ATTACKS, ONLY! No striking or attack of any kind will be permitted when either competitor has hit the ground. Fighters may not turn their backs on the opponent, infractions will result in point loss and third warning in a round will end in disqualification. If a competitor travels out of bounds three times in the course of the bout, on their own volition, the competitor will be disqualified. Competitors may not force a competitor out of bounds by pushing with body weight - this is not Sumo. Absolutely NO downward rips with punyo (butt). NO elbows or knees will be permitted. THE STICK IS THE ONLY THING THAT MAY STRIKE THE HEAD/HELMET. Technical Knock Out A technical knock out (TKO) is awarded for three disarms or takedowns occurring in any bout. Accidental falling down or loss of weapon will count as a takedown or disarm. Should a disarm or takedown occur, the referee will stop the round and the timing will halt. The referee will restore the fighters to the beginning fight position and the timer will resume with the fight. If a fighter forces a competitor out of bounds three times by the force of the stick attack, a TKO will be awarded. Disqualifications Disqualifications will be applied for any illegal actions committed three times. A disqualification may occur based on any prohibited actions delivered with malicious intent. Unsportsmanlike conduct may be grounds for disqualification at the discretion of the judges. Stopping the Fight The referee or either fighter can stop the fight. If a fighter wishes to stop the fight for any reason, he should raise both hands and back away, facing the opponent, at no time should the fighters turn their backs to their opponent. Finishing the Match The fighters will return to ready facing each other, but not guard position. The fighters will be directed to bow to each other, then to the referee and the winner will be announced. Double Stick Competition Double stick rules shall be identical to the single stick rules with the following exceptions: 1. No grappling 2. No takedowns 3. A TKO will consist of 3 disarms in the course of a bout. 4. No butt (punyo) thrusts. Equipment Rules Our competition officials will check all equipment. This year, we will be wearing WEKAF type helmet and body protectors, shoes, hockey gloves or similar and forearm guards are required as well as hard-body elbow and knee protectors, a cup and mouthpiece are also required. All competitions will be conducted on professional (Zebra) mats and require martial arts or wrestling shoes. We will be using lightweight rattan sticks and will offer approved sticks at the competition. Competitors may use their own sticks upon approval. No frayed or damaged sticks will be permitted. Sticks shall not weigh more than seven (7) ounces, no more than one (1) inch in diameter, no less than one-half inch in diameter and no more than 32 inches in length. NO JEWELRY WILL BE PERMITTED ON COMPETITORS. Eliminations Bouts will be fought by eliminations with the winners of each bout moving into the next set of eliminations until a single champion has been established. The winners of the Arnold Kali Championship in the weapons forms and self defense categories shall also compete against the champions of the same category from all other style championships. Age Divisions Juniors division will be all stick fighting division competitors under the age of eighteen (18). Seniors division will be all stick fighting competitors over the age of thirty-five (35). Weight Divisions Light Weight: Up to 150 lbs. Middle Weight: 150-205 lbs. Heavy Weight: 205 and up. Weight divisions in juniors and seniors division will depend on number of competitors; over 20 competitors in any division will automatically be subject to division by weight. Coaches Coaches will be permitted, but must adhere to the following rules: 1. Coaches are expected to be familiar with the rules. 2. Verbal contact with your fighter is permitted ONLY between rounds. 3. Coaches must display good sportsmanship and dignified conduct, including bad language. 4. Coaches are required to have a towel and water bottle (with straw). Judgment Appeals Appeals can be made by petitioning the director of the Kali Invitational. All petitions must be accompanied by a $100 petition fee. All decisions thereafter made by the director of the Kali Invitational will be considered final by all parties. Forms Forms shall be no less than thirty- seconds (30) and may be of indefinite duration. A weapon must comprise at least seventy-five percent (75%) of the form. Points Points shall be awarded as follows: 1. One point will be awarded for each of the following. a. strikes to the body b. legal strikes to the limbs and hands c. ick blocked with stick strike 4. Two points will be awarded for each of the following. a. legal strikes to the head b. kicks to the body c. disarms d. takedowns Points will be considered, but it must be understood how difficult judging can be due to the intensity of the action, so the following criteria may also be used to judge the bouts. a. Power b. Accuracy c. Defense d. Aggression e. Combinations f. Clear superiority g. Sportsmanlike conduct Point deductions shall be given as follows: 1. Single point deductions shall be imposed for the following infractions. a. Head butting b. Head striking with fist c. Turning your back to your opponent d. Leaving the ring 5. Two point deductions shall be imposed for the following. a. Thrusting b. Kicking the groin c. Hitting the fallen opponent d. Hitting the back directly e. Downward rips with punyo f. Face masking g. Takedowns using head h. Jointlocks with weapon --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, www.MartialArtsResource.com, www.Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest