Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:25:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #24 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Barongs for sale!!! (Ron Balicki) 2. Fatal Alliance - part 2 (Ray Terry) 3. Re: Sayoc Kali Seminar (George Storm) 4. Any Advice Anyone? (Jason) 5. Traumatizing kids (rocky pasiwk) 6. Survey - Modern Arnis Blasphemy? (Danny Anderson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ron Balicki" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:12:17 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Barongs for sale!!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Everyone, I have a great offer. I bought a truck load of Barong Swords from Cold Steel. These swords did not meet Cold Steels stringent stress test so they were rejected by Cold Steel's owner Lynn Thompson. If you know Cold Steel then you know what there test consist of. One of their favorite tests among many others at Cold Steel consists of placing a sword blade in a vice and pull on the handle, bending the blade to see where the sword will break. Lynn said that he was not happy with some of the swords test performance, so Lynn rejected the shipment. I talked Lynn into selling me the Swords. I told him that I would let the public know that they did not meet up to Cold Steel's high standards and that I would sell them as decretive show pieces. These swords are beautiful and would make a great addition to anyone's sword collection. They would also look great hanging on the wall, be it your house or martial arts school. The swords must be sold as is. I can not guaranty that it would not break if you strike it into an object. I promised Cold Steel that I would sell them with this explained. The Moro Barong comes with a beautiful wooden sheath that is shown in the picture above. The sword will come with a receipt stating what has been explained in this letter to you. They were to retail for $174.99. I am selling them for $109.99 on my web page. If anyone from the Escrima Digest wants them I will sell them to you for $100.00 + shipping & Handling. They are beautiful swords and probably just as strong as any of the other Barongs out there. You can take a look at them on my web page www.ronbalicki.com. If you have any questions you can call: (805) 777-3421 Thanks Ron Balicki _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:30:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Fatal Alliance - part 2 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Part 2 of 4 (I think). A portion from the book Magellan, by Tim Joyner. The three ships nosed into the harbor and let go their anchors, and Magellan sent his young relative (possibly his natural son), Cristovao Rebelo, ashore with Enrique to locate the authorities and assure them of his peaceful intentions. They found the local potentate, Rajah Humabon, surrounded by a crowd of retainers, all very much alarmed by the thunder of the artillery. Enrique assured the rajah that the guns had been fired merely in salute. It was the custom, he said, for Spanish ships to so honor the rulers and citizens of the foreign ports they visited, and should be taken as a sign of peace. Relieved that his city was not under attack, Humabon asked Magellan's emissaries what brought their chief to Cebu. Enrique answered that his master, a captain of the greatest king in the world, had heard such good things about the ruler of Cebu that he had come to visit him, bringing greetings and an offer of friendship. His master also wished to purchase fresh food for his ships and to trade for the products of Cebu with the merchandise he had brought from Spain. An emboldened Humabon replied that his custom was to require the payment of a port tariff by all visiting ships. In fact, he told them, only four days ago he had received such a payment from a Siamese junk that had called to take on a cargo of slaves and gold. Rebelo haughtily drew himself up and, with Enrique interpreting, told Humabon that since his captain general served such a powerful monarch, he would not pay tribute to any prince. He had come with a message of peace, but if war was what the ruler of Cebu wanted, war he would have. A Moslem merchant, apparently a resident agent for Siamese trading interests, whispered to Humabon that he had better be careful with these strangers: They were probably Portuguese, the "Franks" whose brutal conquest of Calicut and Malacca had spread terror and disrupted ancient trading patterns from India to the China Seas. Overhearing the merchant, Enrique told Humabon that his master served the Spanish king who also was emperor of all the Christians. The latter was even more powerful in men and ships than the king of the Portuguese. When the agent from Siam confirmed this, Humabon became thoroughly alarmed and announced that he would discuss the matter with his advisors and give his decision to the captain general the next day. He then treated Rebelo and Enrique to an elaborate lunch. 18 After the two emissaries returned to the Trinidad and related all that had transpired, Colambu went ashore to tell his ally, Rajah Humabon, of his experiences with these strange visitors. The next day Enrique went ashore again to learn what the rajah had decided, this time with the fleet notary, Leon de Ezpeleta. Intimidated by the thunder of Magellan's guns and the stories of Portuguese savagery, Humabon came to the town square to greet them, not only announcing that he would waive the port tax for his distinguished visitors, but offering to pay tribute to their emperor. He was assured that it would not be necessary; the captain general sought only to trade among the islands, and hoped to make Cebu the center of his trading activities. Greatly relieved, Humabon agreed to work out a trading arrangement with the Spaniards. To insure their continued friendship, he suggested that Magellan become his blood brother. At ten o'clock on the morning of April 9, Colambu returned to the Trinidad, bringing with him the Moslem agent from Siam and a message from Humabon. While he was busy that morning arranging for the collection of the foodstuffs requested by the captain general, Humabon would send his nephew who, as husband of the rajah's eldest daughter, was the heir apparent, and some of his ministers to the flagship to conclude a treaty of peace. When the emissaries arrived that afternoon, Magellan received them with appropriate ceremony. The captain general, the young prince, and Colambu were seated on chairs covered with red velvet. The principal ministers were seated on leather-backed chairs, with the rest of the delegation seated around them on mats. With Enrique serving as interpreter, Magellan asked the prince whether it was the custom in his country to conduct treaty negotiations in public, and if so, whether they had been authorized by Humabon to negotiate in his name. Reassured by the prince on both counts, Magellan dropped to his knees and prayed that the proposed alliance would be pleasing to God in Heaven. The prayer seemed to trigger in him an extended outpouring of religious sentiment. The captain general's piety profoundly touched his guests, who remarked, wrote Pigafetta, "... that they had never heard anyone say such words, but that they took great pleasure in hearing them." Emboldened by their interest, Magellan urged his guests to accept the Christian faith. When Magellan queried them about family relationships in their society, they said that "... when fathers and mothers grew old, they received no further honor, but their children commanded them." Shocked, Magellan told them that the Christian God "... had commanded us to honor our fathers and mothers, and that whoever did otherwise was condemned to eternal fire; that we are all descended from Adam and Eve, our first parents; that we have an immortal spirit; and many other things pertaining to the faith." Magellan, it seems, had begun a singular transformation: The silent, obsessive captain general was becoming an impassioned preacher, but not from unadulterated religious passion. In him, religious feelings were inextricably mixed with personal, political, and military goals. As Pigafetta told the story, after Magellan's sermon the islanders implored him to leave some men to instruct them in the Christian faith. He replied that though he couldn't spare even one man from his ships, those who sincerely hed to become Christians could be baptized by the fleet chaplain. But baptism, he warned them, must not be undertaken out of fear, the desire to please others, or the desire for personal gain. Magellan did not wish, wrote Pigafetta, " ... to cause ... displeasure to those who chose to live by their own law, but the Christians would be better regarded and treated than the others." Warming to his sermon, Magellan told the emissaries that, should they become Christians, their wives also would have to be baptized, for only then would it be permissible for their Christian husbands to sleep with them. He promised a suit of Spanish armor to those of his guests who would adopt the Christian faith. When the delegation assured him that Humabon would sign the peace treaity, and that they were all eager to be baptized, Magellan wept openly and embraced each of them. "Then he took the hands of the prince and king of (Limasawa) between his own;" continued Pigafetta, "and told them that by his faith in God, his loyalty to his sovereign the emperor, and by the [crusaders] habit he wore, he swore that perpetual peace would exist between the kings of Spain and Zebu." Before leaving, the delegation presented Magellan with several large bass of rice and some live pigs, goats, and chickens, exclaiming that such poor gifts were not worthy of so great a personage. In return, Magellan gave the prince a bolt of finely woven white cloth and a cup made of gilded glass, at that time much prized in the islands. He then dispatched Pigafetta and an unnamed companion ashore, bearing presents for Humabon, including a yellow-and-violet silken Turkish robe, a red hat, strings of glass beads, a silver dish, and two gilded glass drinking cups. They found Humabon in his palace, seated on a mat. Short, fat, tattooed, and naked "...except for a cotton cloth before his privies," he was eating turtle eggs and swilling them down with palm wine. The liquor was drawn through "... a slender reed," reported Pigafetta in what may have been, if not the first, one of the earliest descriptions by a European of the use of straws for drinking. The two Europeans were invited to the house of the prince, where they were entertained with music, refreshments, and dancing. At the conclusion of his impromptu party, "... the prince had three quite naked girls dance for us," bragged Pigafetta. When he and his companion returned to their ship, Pigafetta told Magellan that they had been very well received." The next day, April 10, Magellan sent another delegation ashore to get Humabon's permission to bury two men who, weakened by scurvy, had just died. One was Juan de Aroche, a man-at-arms who had sailed from San Lucar on the San Antonio; the name of the other is not known. Humabon consented and provided a burial site in the square at the center of the town. The following day, funeral services were conducted with much of the town looking on, and the solemnity of the event left a deep impression on the people of Cebu. Several days later, Humabon declared his wish to become a Christian. While Magellan was experiencing heady success with his religious efforts, he was also busy establishing a commercial base in Cebu. The day of the funeral, a crew set up afactoria (trading post) in a building provided by Humabon, who promised protection for the enterprise and the four Spaniards assigned by Magellan to run it. The store opened for business on April 12, 1521. Of the products put on display, items made of iron or bronze appealed the most to the curious townsfolk, who gladly gave gold in exchange. Rice, pigs, goats, and other foodstuffs were traded for trinkets and other small sundries. "They gave us ten gold pieces, each worth a ducat and a half (approximately $6oo U.S.) for fourteen pounds of iron," wrote Pigafetta. Magellan forbade his sailors to trade for gold. If he had not, Pigafetta averred, "... every sailor would have given all that he possessed to obtain it, spoiling forever the trade in this metal." Then began a series of events that, to Magellan, proved that the Holy Mother had heard his prayers and was watching over him, guiding his efforts. On Sunday, April 14, Humabon, his wife, son-in-law, his most important retainers, and his ally, Colambu, were baptized in a public ceremony in the central square of Cebu City. A large platform draped with bright tapestries and decorated with palm leaves had been erected for the occasion. Forty armed men, two of them clad from head to foot in gleaming steel armor, brought the royal standard ashore from the flagship. As soon as their boat touched the beach, the gunners on the ship let loose a deafening salute, no doubt startling the huge crowd that had gathered. Humabon greeted Magellan at the beach, warmly embracing him. Followed by the curious crowd, they proceeded to the town square where, in addition to the ceremonial platform, a tall, wooden cross had been erected. Standing before the cross, Magellan announced that all who wished to be baptized must burn the idols kept in their houses and replace them with crosses, and that they must come to this plaza every day, their hands clasped for prayer. He showed them how to kneel reverently, making the sign of the cross. Magellan took Humabon's hand, and together they mounted the platform, seating themselves on two chairs covered with red and violet velvet. Magellan wore a robe of pure white, to demonstrate, he told the rajah, his love for those who were about to become Christians. The island's principal chiefs surrounded them, seated on cushions, with the lesser dignitaries on mats. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "George Storm" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sayoc Kali Seminar Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:00:17 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > The Bujinkan Dojo of Manchester, will be hosting Tuhon Christopher Sayoc >for > an intensive two day seminar in Sayoc Kali. This is a rare event, the >family > head of the Sayoc Kali system will be sharing the Stick fighting tactics >of > Sayoc Fighting Systems, and Blade tactics and Projectiles of Sayoc Kali. > Sticks and projectiles? In the magazine ads Sayoc Kali is advertised as All Blade All The Time. ? >Tuhon Chris Sayoc, of Sayoc Kali, is a man who has been involved with the >Filipino martial arts since he was a young child. Precisely how many years is that? <><><><> George S _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Jason" To: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:13:49 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Any Advice Anyone? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings all, I am planning a trip to Hawaii next month and was wondering if anyone had suggestion on what to do there. More specifically, I will be staying in OAHU. It doesn't have to be martial arts related but if there is anything that someone can suggest it would be greatly appreciated. You can respond privately jason@pyrczak.com or on the forum. Thank you for your time. Jason :) --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:12:01 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Traumatizing kids Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well this is a new one for me, as most that know me know that I am not big on training kids, yes I know I started a 5 yrs old and all that other stuff but kids are just not my cup of tea. I am negotiating a deal now for a new 6000 sq ft training center, that I will sublease to various arts, and I personally will probably not teach kids, my wife might, and who ever lease from me is free to, its just not my thing. So any ways I ran into a situation with my daughter, she is 4 years old, slightly gifted, she catch's on quick. Well we were doing Abcedario the other day and she cracked me a good one, split the side of my melon good, probably should have gotten stitches. Now she is terrified of training, my thought is to make her jump right back into it. I told her it was my fault and all, but still, even as smart as she is you are still dealing with a child. Any suggestions. 31 years in the MA's and this is a first for me!! Rocky --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:14:36 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Survey - Modern Arnis Blasphemy? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Martial Artists,  I am putting my butt out here on the line and am doing a survey as to what has been referred to (by another) regarding what I am doing with Modern Arnis as misleading, misinforming and disrespectful to my late teacher, Remy Presas. I thought I'd get some opinions and feedback from others who had trained under him as well as experienced martial artists. The two main points of contention are that I have named my own style of Modern Arnis as Modern Arnis 80 and that I titled myself Professor as well as founder of Modern Arnis 80.  Here are some facts to begin with: Point of contention #1 - the name Modern Arnis 80. Back in 1998 or so I asked Prof. Presas permission to form my own sub-system of Modern Arnis, subservient to his. When I went up to visit him at a joint seminar of his and Wally Jay's, I got his verbal permission to do so. When Prof. Presas died there was the big deal made about successorship, who were the top students and so forth. I had predicted this would happen back in 1994 in a letter to Bram Frank. To sidestep the whole mess I came public with my style of what I had learned from the professor and named it Modern Arnis 80. Here is why. First of all, the Filipino martial art I learned was Modern Arnis, not Balintawak or Serrada escrima, etc. The 80 has two meanings. 1) 1980 is the year I began training. 2) If you turn the 8 on its side you have the symbol for infinity. I remember how Prof. Presas would show us endless variations based off of one move. That gives the idea of an infinite number of actions one can do. I also remember how direct he could be if you put the heat on him? The 80 means "the possibility of anything (8) to the simplicity of the moment (0)." The 8------0 is sort of a philosophical thing. For me, to say I am teaching Modern Arnis, Remy Presas style, is incorrect as he taught in a seminar fashion and not a structured one.  Nor did he ever set up any kind of heirarchy.  This is how he taught in the United States. How he taught in the Philippines may be another matter. As to seniority, Remy Presas was my instructor and he didn't tell me that any of current Modern Arnis groups or individuals were my seniors. As I trained directly under Prof. Presas, he was my senior and shortly before he died all he said to me was, "Danny, get involved." and that was it. Point of contention #2, the use of the titles Professor for myself Filipino martial arts wise and Founder, Modern Arnis 80. A founder, by dictionary definition, is one who establishes something. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and others were the founders of our country. That is the usage of the term as I apply it to what I do. I have not claimed to have found a lost 1980's art or 1980's way of teaching something as has been stated by another. I founded the style that I teach, the steps of progression and that is the usage of founder that I go by. The reason for the Professor title is simple. Many instructors call themselves something. A dictionary definition of professor is "one that teaches or professes special knowledge of an art, sport, or occupation requiring skill." I have been teaching martial arts for 34 years. I have been teaching Modern Arnis in some form or another for 22 years. I am one of the Professor's highest ranked students in the U.S. (6th Degree Black Belt and Senior Master). I was awarded the Professor title by ATAMA in Karate but I feel I have earned it as an overall instructor as well. I do not put myself on the same status with Remy Presas and never have.  I do not claim that position by using the term Professor. There are a number of titles I could adopt. Like I said, many instructors call themselves something. I don't use Guro, Punong Guro, Master, Senior Master, Grand Master as none of them fit. To me in the above definition, Professor fits. As far as it being disrespectful to my teacher, it would be far more disrespectful for me to name what I do "Dan Anderson Arnis," "American Arnis," "Super Dan's Stickfighting" or something like that. I use the term Modern Arnis because that is my base Filipino art. I use the term to show where I got my skill from - Remy A. Presas. As a senior practitioner in the martial arts, your input is valuable to me. I feel I am helping take my instructor's art into the new millennium and am doing it somewhat the same way he did, by learning a base art (for me Modern Arnis) and then expanding my own knowledge, as he did with his family art and Balintawak escrima. Is this misleading, misinforming and disrespectful to my late teacher or is it just one person's opinion? Your reply and opinions, whether they agree with my own or not, are very welcome. Thank you in advance, Dan Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, www.MartialArtsResource.com, www.Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest