Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:24:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #26 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Modern Arnis Blasphemy (gordon walker) 2. Old filipino boxers inquiry (gordon walker) 3. DBMA in Oahu (Marc Denny) 4. Re: Any Advice Anyone? (Andrew R Breton) 5. Sayoc Kali Reply (Steven Lefebvre) 6. Fatal Alliance - 4 of 4 (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Old filipino boxers inquiry (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:15:55 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Modern Arnis Blasphemy Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Sir, I think that things are subject to inertia. This applies to physical and emotional, spiritual, Etc. In my experience any mention of change, or allusion to it, has met with intense resistance. Even in the cases of my mentors who have preached the necessity of it. Even in my own case, when I have tried to be observant of my resistance, I have been a victim of this fear of change. People like to gather in groups and they will scoff at the other groups. Its almost like a high school clique forming habit that most people never become aware of. If they are aware of it, they are usually not able to leave this habit because it has served them well. Kind of wierd to be responding 'cause I dont usually like surveys. What the hell. I was feeling philisophical. Much respect to you all and I hope the resolutions are going well. (hee hee hee) Gord --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:26:07 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Old filipino boxers inquiry Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Sirs and Madams, In reference to the filipino boxers of old, and to the current sensation Pacquio (? not sure of the spelling sorry!), is there any truth in saying that there is a influence of the weapons arts in their skills? I have spoken with my instructor and was told that Muhammed Ali once stayed with a Filipino champion boxer,when he was in the Philippines. Im not exactly sure of the source but it was said that Ali's footwork had elements of FMA footwork. This, I believe, came from the father of this filipino champion who was an escrimador! Sorry to be hacking up second hand information. I hope to stir up some info. Sincerely, Gord --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:22:23 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] DBMA in Oahu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Concerning training in Oahu, you may wish to consider: Mike "Dogzilla" Tibbitts Senior Lakan Guro Kapolei, Oahu, HI phone# 808-674-8255 Woof, Guro Crafty --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:17:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Any Advice Anyone? From: Andrew R Breton Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jason, Some suggestions: FMA-wise: Sundays are good. I do Silat and if you've never seen any, it's fun and unique. As Chad says, a group of us meets afterwards. I haven't been there when Chad's been, but the group always has a good time. Sundays are also good because most of the easily accessible beaches are really crowded. One of the more approachable FMA people is Ron England, of the Derobia (Pedoy) school. His stuff is good, and he has a friendly class. His classes are Tuesdays and Thursdays. Unfortunately, that's the same days as Burton Richardson. I haven't visited Burton's school, but from what I've heard, you can get an idea of what he trains in from his website. Dogzilla is working out with some folks, generally on Saturday nights. I think he's on this list now. If he's not and you're really interested, let me know and I'll pass it along. I don't think can't guarantee the group will meet on any particularly Saturday night (because of schedules, etc.). This is a more informal group and a bit of a ways from the hotel world. I'm always willing to meet with someone and train Pekiti, Silat or some of the other styles I've been exposed to over the years (or just to exchange info). I'm strckly 9-5, so it would have to be evenings, but I can usually shuffle things around and make any particular evening. Other stuff: It depends, of course, on what you like to do. You'll find just about every water-related thing to try a your hotel. When you're here, the whales should still be in the Hawaiin waters. As Ray says, the Bishop museum is really good for information on Polynesian culture. The Polynesian weapons are really interesting. The Polynesian Cultural Center has some informative value, but its more spectacle. Comparing the two, the Bishop museum is like reading a book, the PCC like seeing a movie on the same subject. The Honolulu Academy of Arts has a lot of Asian and Polynesian themed works, if you're into that sort of thing. It's also an interesting building. If you're not intersted in that kind of thing, I'd skip it and spend more time outdoors. The Arizona memorial is a must see. I've been around submarines and ships so much that I decided to forego the related museum, but I hear that's good as well. Punchbowl crater holds the National Cemetary of the Pacific (the equivalent to the cemetaries on Normandy). It gives one pause to reflect on the sacrifices of previous generations. You've got to rent a car and just go out. I'm partial to the drive up road 72, kalanianaole highway, which hooks up with 83, kahekili highway. You can go practically around half the island, but I'd go to a small island called Chinaman's hat. After that, the views aren't as good. Also, get on the alternate parallel road, 836, instead of 83, as it hugs the coast more. It eventually hooks back up with 83. On this drive, there are great views, a great small hidden beach off the Halona blowhole (one of the scenic parking spots off 72) and you can kayak out to Chinaman's hat (or even walk out at low tide). Kailua and Waimanalo (towns nearby) have great beaches that hardly anyone goes to on the weekdays. Also, as you head up 83, look for the sign on the left for the valley of the temples. There is a reconstruction of the Buddist temple in Japan. It's a short trip, but kind of cool. Another must is the Pali. It's a wonderful view. I would avoid the tours that stop and drive there yourself. If you're driving away from Honolulu, after the Pali lookout, you'll go through two tunnels and then there will be a big loop in the road and a small parking space at the hub of it. At the south end (bottom end, as you come in) of that hub is the almost hidden entrance to a trail that's one of the better hiking areas and practically deserted. If you're into hiking, one of my favorites is Manoa falls (great hike, the falls themselves are dissappointing). Off highway 72, right before Makapuu beach, is a hike to the lighthouse that has some great Ocean views. If you want something isolated and different, go to Kaena point. I go by the leeward (west) side of the island. There's a reconstructed ancient Hawaiin temple a ways up Makaha Valley road. The walk to Kaena point has some of the best Ocean views, if you want views of a savage sea that no sane person would enter. It's a dirt road trail so it's not 'real' hiking, and the inland view, in my point of view, leaves something to be desired compared to other hikes. But, like I said, the ocean views are great, as is the point itself at the head of the trail. It would be a full day and, as I've said, pretty isolated. Finally, there's the North shore. They have some great beaches and the surfers congregate here. Also, some really hot looking women (that's what you're going to Hawaii for, right?). On your timeline, it will likely still be dangerous to swim. I myself am partial to Waimea Falls park on the North shore. They have a tall waterfall, a small recontructed Hawaiian village where people ply the old Hawaiin trades. You can pay a little extra and rent ATVs, kayaks, etc. I personally would forego the gift shop/restaurant there and go into Haleiwa and find any of several little hole in the wall eateries. Haleiwa really gives you the feel of a beach town. On your drive up to the North shore, you'll get a great feel for the old pineapple planations (and you can tour the Dole planation, if that floats your boat. Personally, I think it would be hard to fit into a single day trip). Oh, almost forgot, Hanauma Bay. Great snorkeling, get there early. If you really want to shell out money, a helicopter or plane ride around the island is unforgetable. For something a little bit different, and you're so inclined, go to St. Augustine's church and find your way to the Saint Demien's (recently canonized) exhibit in back. Father Demien spent 16 years with the lepers, and the articles and video are interesting. There are literally hundereds of places to eat or hang out by the beach. I would go to the Western end of Waikiki or Ala Moana area, as those restaurants generally have the best views, and pick whatever cuisine you like. Any of the great locations (Bali's by the sea, Michel's) are expensive, but good. I would go to Sam Choy's, since he uses local ingedients and local dishes; it's also expensive. Hau Tree Lanai breaks the rule because it's on the other side of Waikiki, but the view is great. Again, great view = expensive. I also like Keo's Thai, the Pagota, and a restaurant on Makahiki (close to where Ron works out, but it's not the type of place you would go after working out). It's name escapes me - I want to say Willows - but it's the only place out there. None of these places has ocean views, but have good ambiance. Duke's Canoe club is a good hang out place by the beach. Or you can just wander and eat where-ever. One word of warning, places advertise puu-puus, and tell you they are a geat way to sample Hawaiian food. It's usually just a cheap buffet. I've seen Mexican "Hawaiian" food in Puu puu platters. If you want cheap Hawaiian food, try 'Ono Hawaiian Foods. Sorry, Ray, I hadn't seen half this stuff when you stopped by. As the fee for this little travelogue, I'd like the shark tooth weapon I've had my eye on, and for hosting the Escrima list, Ray would like the Maori war club. Andy On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:13:49 -0800 "Jason" writes: > Greetings all, > > I am planning a trip to Hawaii next month and was wondering if > anyone had > suggestion on what to do there. More specifically, I will be staying > in OAHU. > It doesn't have to be martial arts related but if there is anything > that > someone can suggest it would be greatly appreciated. You can respond > privately > jason@pyrczak.com or on the forum. Thank you for your time. > > > Jason :) > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Steven Lefebvre" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:10:35 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Sayoc Kali Reply Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello George, Great questions, First you will note that the seminar information states: Sayoc Fighting Systems, stick fighting tactics, if you go to Sayoc.com in the FAQ section you will notice that the SFS was a name used for the Sayoc Family system which is currently not taught as an individual art. As of 1991, Tuhon Sayoc has chosen to teach the Blade only Sayoc Kali system, which includes "bakal" or projectiles. Tuhon started training when he was 7 or 8 years old,I believe, of the top of my head, he is around 40. In the early 70's the Sayoc household and martial arts center was a hub for many prominent east coast FMA's instructors to gather and train. As well as his family system he was exposed to many other Filipino Arts, during this period. I hope this helps, and I hope you can attend, as it will be a great event. Gumagalang Guro Steve L - Kayan Dalawa Guro Sayoc Kali- www.Bujinkandojo.net _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:06:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Fatal Alliance - 4 of 4 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fatal Alliance - Part 4 of 4 Other accounts were culled from testimony given by survivors of the illfated expedition (for the most part professional mariners) to official boards of inquiry, or in the courts where claims were filed against the Crown by heirs of those who died. Although some of these sources may have had reason to give biased testimony, the stories of most can be considered their best recollections of events. Pigafetta stated that the landing on Mactan was vigorously opposed. "When we reached land," he wrote, "those men formed in three divisions to the number of more than one thousand five hundred persons. When they saw us, they charged down upon us with exceeding loud cries, two divisions on our flanks, and the other on our front." He described a furious fight at or near the beach, in which musket fire proved ineffective. After passing through the natives' wooden shields, the musket balls did not have enough energy left to do much damage. They shot so many arivws at us and hurled so many bamboo spears (some tipped with iron) at the captain general, besides fire-hardened, pointed stakes, stones and dirt, that we could scarcely defend ourselves. Seeing that, the captain general sent some men to burn their houses in order to terrify them. When they saw their houses burning, they were roused to greater fury. Two of our men were killed near the houses, while we burned twenty or thirty houses. So many of them charged down upon us that they shot the captain through the right leg with a poisoned arrow. On that account, he ordered us to retire slowly, but the men took flight, except six or eight of us who remained with the captain. We continued to retire for more than a crossbow flight from the shore, always fighting up to our knees in the water. The natives continued to pursue us, and picking up the same spear four or six times, hurled it at us again and again. Recognizing the captain, so many turned upon him that they knocked his helmet off his head twice, but he always stood firm like a good knight, together with some others. Thus did we fight for more than an hour, refusing to retire further. An Indian hurled a bamboo spear into the captain's face, but the latter immediately killed him with his lance, which he left in the Indian's body. Then, going for his sword, he could draw it out but halfway, because he had been wounded in the arm by a bamboo spear When the natives saw that, they all hurled themselves upon him. One of them wounded him on the left leg with a [bolo], which resembles a scimitar, only larger. That caused the captain to fall face downward, when immediately they rushed upon him with iron and bamboo spears, and with their [bolos] until they killed our mirror, our light, our comfort, and our true guide. When they wounded him, he turned back many times to see whether we were all in the boats. Thereupon, beholding him dead, we, wounded, retreated as best we could to the boats, which already were pulling off. Another version of the story, recorded by Herrera, was culled from the official records to which he had access in Spain early in the seventeenth century. These are thought to have included a Portuguese account describing the contents of San Martin's notebooks. Having remained on one of the ships at anchor in the port of Cebu, San Martin did not participate in the battle, but probably recorded what he was told by eyewitnesses. There are other versions of the battle, some by participants. As with most multiple-witness accounts, there is noticeable variation in many details. The essential elements of the story, however, are sufficiently similar to give it credibility. Juan Sebastian del Cano was not present at the Battle of Mactan. However, like San Martin, he had ready access to firsthand accounts from survivors. In his testimony about the voyage after returning to Spain as captain of the Victoria-while he had ample cause to slant that part concerning his role in the mutiny-Cano would have had little reason for misrepresenting the events surrounding Magellan's death. His testimony was the basis for a version of the Battle of Mactan proposed by a nineteenth-century Spanish archivist, Rodrigo Aganduru Moriz, that helps to explain Magellan's extraordinarily rash behavior during the last hours of his life. By synthesizing these other versions of Magellan's final battle with Pigafetta's firsthand but suspiciously colorful account, the following scenario can be deduced: The landing was unopposed. On attaining the beach, Magellan and his men headed straight for the town. Finding it evacuated, they commenced to burn some of the houses, a tactic to which Magellan seems to have been addicted. While so engaged, they were attacked on each flank by two battalions of enraged natives. Magellan then divided his small force to counterattack on both flanks, but they were assaulted so furiously by such large numbers of the enemy that they recombined to defend themselves. For several hours, the harquebusiers and crossbowmen kept the enemy at a respectful distance. Eventually, the Spaniards ran out of powder, lead, and crossbow bolts. Perceiving this, the natives closed in, hurling stones, firehardened stakes, and iron-tipped bamboo lances and shooting poisoned arrows. Seeing that the situation was growing desperate, Magellan ordered a gradual retreat. Instead, most of the Spaniards, eager to reach the safety of the boats, fled pell-mell toward the beach, leaving Magellan with no more than eight defenders to cover the retreat. Outside the reef, beyond the range of their swivel guns, the men in the shallops were unable to provide covering fire. Lapulapu's forces attacked with redoubled fury, aiming their spears and poisoned arrows at the unprotected legs of the retreating Spaniards. One of the poisoned arrows grazed Magellan's leg, and yet another mortally wounded Cristovao Rebelo, who had been fighting valiantly alongside his father. When Magellan saw that the young man had been killed, he went berserk and hurled himself at the enemy, getting so far ahead of his defenders that they were unable to protect him. Surrounded by the enemy, he was pelted furiously with stones that knocked off his helmet. A defending warrior slashed his leg with a bolo and he fell helpless to the ground. Bamboo spears were thrust into his body wherever it was unprotected by armor. A spear through the throat was the coup de grace. Without fire support from the swivel guns on the shallops, it is not likely that Magellan's small landing force could have reached the beach across a thousand feet of shallow coral, confronted as Pigafetta claimed by three battalions of the enemy. Nor is it likely that they could have broken through the enemy ranks to attack the village, which lay behind the mangroves fronting the beach. One has only to recall the awful casualties inflicted by determined Japanese defenders on U.S. assault forces on the tiny island of Betio in Tarawa Atoll in 1943, when low tide forced Navy landing craft to deposit the marines on a shallow reef well offshore. It seems more likely that Lapulapu expected to be attacked by a large force of Humabon's men supported by a smaller force of Spaniards. Not knowing where they would land, he assembled his defending forces in the interior of Mactan Island, holding them ready until the invaders entered into terrain suitable for counterattack. When Humabon's war canoes failed to land a single warrior, Lapulapu could scarcely believe his good luck. Magellan's men had begun to burn the village when they were attacked on both flanks by Lapulapu's forces. If it had not been for the superior range of the Spaniards' crossbows, they would have been driven into the sea much more quickly. When they ran out of crossbow bolts, Magellan had no other recourse but to order his men to retreat. Thanks to his valiant holding action, most of his little force made it back to the boats. While Pigafetta may have doctored the details of Magellan's final hours to make a more colorful story, his praise for the uncommon valor of the fallen captain general was well deserved. Seven Europeans, including Magellan, were killed in the Battle of Mactan, and another died of his wounds shortly after the battle. Fifteen of the enemy were reported killed. Bearing the wounded survivors, the shallops returned to the ships at Cebu. When the men who had remained with the squadron learned that the captain general had been killed, "... great was the outpouring of grief by the crews, who [had come to] love and respect him and had been willing to endure much travail to go wherever he might lead them." Rajah Humabon cried like a baby when told of Magellan's death, but his confidence was shaken in his new allies and in the power of the religion he had just adopted. His disillusionment grew when he realized that the defeat by Lapulapu and outrage at the behavior of the ship's crews toward the island's women was causing his subjects to question his leadership. At the urging of the ships' officers he sent a message to Lapulapu, requesting the return of Magellan's body, in return for which the Spaniards promised to give whatever merchandise from their factoria he might choose. The victorious chieftain refused, replying that he would not give up the body of such a man for anything, and that he intended to keep it as a memorial to his triumph. There can be little doubt that Lapulapu also urged Humabon to get rid of his troublesome guests. Already disgusted with them, Humabon resolved to do just that. With Magellan and Revelo dead, the ships' crews had to choose a new squadron commander and a captain for the Victoria. For the latter position they elected Luis Affonso de Goes, a Portuguese supernumerary on the Trinidad. Duarte Barbosa was elected captain of the flagship, but they did not trust him with exclusive command of the squadron. Juan Serrano, the veteran pilot-captain of the Concepcion, was elected co-commander. One of the first decisions of the new high command was to close down the factoria and reload the trade goods in the ships. This completed, they asked for two pilots to guide them through the archipelago. Humabon was indignant; their intent to abandon Cebu destroyed any traces of goodwill he may have retained for the Spaniards. Enrique, Magellan's Malay slave and the expedition's interpreter, had fought alongside his master at Mactan and received a minor wound. Despondent over Magellan's death, he brooded aboard the Trinidad, nursing his injury. Magellan had stipulated in his will that upon his death Enrique would be freed from bondage and provided with funds for his support. When Barbosa ordered him ashore to help recruit native pilots, Enrique declined, because, he said, of his wounds. Enraged at the slave's refusal, Barbosa swore that as brother to Magellan's wife, he would make sure that Enrique would never be manumitted, but remain her slave for life. Furthermore, he fumed, if Enrique didn't get out of his bunk and do as ordered, he would have him flogged. Seething with resentment and wounded pride, Enrique went to negotiate with Humabon. It would have been better for the expedition if he hadn't. On May 1, Enrique returned to the Trinidad with an invitation from Humabon for the captains, principal officers, and ranking men of the squadron to attend a ceremonial banquet where they would be presented with fine jewels, a gift for the Christian Emperor. Barbosa was eager to go; Serrano advised caution, but was mocked by Barbosa for lack of courage. His Castilian pride stung, Serrano ordered a longboat made ready and was the first to leap into it. He was followed by Barbosa, the Victoria's new captain, Affonso de Goes, the pilots San Martin and Carvalho, ships' clerks Ezpeleta and Heredia, the chaplain, Valderrama, master-at-arms Gomez de Espinosa, and Enrique. Sixteen others, including supernumeraries, able seamen, and a cooper, accompanied them. Pigafetta did not go; his face was swollen from a poisoned arrow that had grazed his forehead during the battle. When the shore party landed at the beach, they were warmly welcomed by Humabon, but as they were led to the banquet site, Espinosa and Carvalho noticed that the prince who had been miraculously cured by Magellan quietly took aside the priest, Valderrama, and escorted him to his house. Suspecting a trap, Espinosa and Carvaiho hurried back to the longboat and rowed back to the Trinidad. They were telling the crew of their suspicions when they heard shouting and a great tumult ashore. Realizing that their shipmates had been ambushed, Carvalho, now the senior officer, ordered the ships to move closer to shore and begin bombarding the town. As the gunners opened fire, Serrano, bound and bleeding, was dragged toward the beach. He called out to his comrades on the ships to cease fire, or he would be killed. Asked what had happened to the others, he shouted that their throats had all been cut, except for Enrique, who had been spared. >From this point, there is considerable divergence in the accounts of the survivors. Pigafetta, who obviously disliked Carvalho, said that Serrano had implored us "... to redeem him with some of the merchandise; but Johan Carvaio, his boon companion, would not allow the boat to go ashore [fearing treachery]." Instead, Carvalho ordered the ships to set sail, leaving Serrano on the beach, weeping. He "... asked us not to set sail so quickly, for they would kill him." Serrano, wrote Pigafetta, prayed that on Judgment Day, God would hold Carvalho accountable for his conduct. A quite different version was provided by an anonymous Portuguese survivor of the voyage, probably Vasquito Galego, son of the deceased pilot of the Victoria, Vasco Galego. After the death of his father during the crossing of the Pacific, Vasquito apparently continued his father's log. The original manuscript is in the University of Leiden, in the Netherlands. In this version of the story, Serrano's captors had demanded two lombards (artillery pieces) as ransom for their prisoner. When Carvalho sent these ashore in a skiff, the natives upped their demands. The crew of the skiff said that Carvalho would give whatever they asked for Serrano's freedom, but requested that he be released at a location where he could be picked up safely. When his captors refused to do this, Serrano called out that they were stalling and would try to capture the ships as soon as reinforcements arrived. He shouted to his shipmates that they had better leave quickly, for "... it were better for him to die than all should perish." Less dramatic than Pigafetta's, this version may come closer to reality. During the voyage, Serrano had proved himself a loyal, capable, and brave officer. The picture painted by Pigafetta of the proud Castilian captain weeping, imploring Carvalho to save him when doing so would have put the ships and their crews in jeopardy, simply does not ring true. It seems more likely that, realizing that any rescuers attempting to reach him would be seized, Serrano told Carvalho to leave him and sail away. [end of transcription] --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Old filipino boxers inquiry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:16:02 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I have spoken with my instructor and was told that Muhammed Ali once stayed > with a Filipino champion boxer,when he was in the Philippines. Im not > exactly sure of the source but it was said that Ali's footwork had > elements of FMA footwork. This, I believe, came from the father of this > filipino champion who was an escrimador! Doubtful. The Thrilla in Manila was 10-1-75. One can frequently see old film of Ali boxing on the ESPN Classic cable channel, and other places. By the 1960 Olympics and his early pro fights right after that you basically see the same Ali as you did in later years, only much leaner. Now perhaps one or some of Ali's coaches or trainers had been exposed to FMA, but Ali was just a (relatively) poor kid from Louisville, KY. His secret FMA was fast feet, fast hands and a fast head on a big strong man with a big strong heart. Thoughts from others?? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, www.MartialArtsResource.com, www.Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest