Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:24:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #27 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Old filipino boxers inquiry (Patrick Davies) 2. Re: Old filipino boxers inquiry (lakanmdb@aol.com) 3. Re: Old filipino boxers inquiry (krider2068@hotmail.com) 4. Re: Old filipino boxers inquiry (Ray Terry) 5. RE: Old filipino boxers inquiry (CARLO ARELLANO) (Carlo Arellano) 6. Re: Modern Arnis Blasphemy - No Disrespect Here (al sardinas) 7. not for wussies (fwd) (Ray Terry) 8. Flash Elorde (GatPuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Patrick Davies To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Old filipino boxers inquiry Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:35:37 -0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This was from a post about five years ago from this digest. I don't record the original poster. 05/11/98 is the date of a note I had so might be worth an archive search. <>ELastra I believe it is difficult to obtain but any help about where to buy a copy would be greatly appreciated on this end. My uncle introduced me to Gabriel "Flash" Elorde when I was a kid and the champ was kind enough to give this seven year old kid a "tour" of his Japanese style house. I remember it was the first time I ever saw trophies... all displayed that it filled a whole room. My uncle always reminded me that Elorde's father would always goof around with some of his son's boxer friends showing them his long and short stick work. Btw, Elorde was voted by RING magazine as in the top five fighters in his weight division of all time. Muhammed Ali also acknowledged Elorde's influence on his footwork when he was promoting his fight with Frazier. Pat Davies -----Original Message----- Message: 7 Now perhaps one or some of Ali's coaches or trainers had been exposed to FMA, but Ali was just a (relatively) poor kid from Louisville, KY. His secret FMA was fast feet, fast hands and a fast head on a big strong man with a big strong heart. Thoughts from others?? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:44:04 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Old filipino boxers inquiry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mabuhay to all I am a big boxing fan, and the Pilipino boxers are without a doubt the most vicious in the ring. I have been following Manny Poquio's carreer for some time. He is quiet adept at positioning himself in such a manner that the referee is on his side and from there, ELBOW CITY. which to me is fine, As Joe Frazier once said "Everythings Legal till ya get caught". To be perfectly honest I have yet to see a great champ who isnt a dirty SOB. Muhammad Ali was natorious for thumbing to the eye, Holyfield is the greatest Nutter in the world, Euzebio Pedroza had the absolute best Bolo punch ever. Dirtyness in boxing is part of the game. The Pilipino boxers in my estimation have perhaps the most unorthodox of styles, I have purchased the old Pinoy boxing tapes, featuring Tanny Campos , and Speedy Dato and many more and if you watch closely alot of there foot work is quiet similar to triangle and diamond stepping, and like I stated earlier when the opportunity arises its hook-elbow uppercut , very panatukan me thinks. Just my opinion. have a great day Mike B. SATX PTK-Pitbulls --__--__-- Message: 3 From: To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Old filipino boxers inquiry Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:08:29 +0100 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I heard about a video that show Ali sparring with a filipino boxer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Old filipino boxers inquiry > > I have spoken with my instructor and was told that Muhammed Ali once stayed > > with a Filipino champion boxer,when he was in the Philippines. Im not > > exactly sure of the source but it was said that Ali's footwork had > > elements of FMA footwork. This, I believe, came from the father of this > > filipino champion who was an escrimador! > > Doubtful. The Thrilla in Manila was 10-1-75. One can frequently see old > film of Ali boxing on the ESPN Classic cable channel, and other places. > By the 1960 Olympics and his early pro fights right after that you basically > see the same Ali as you did in later years, only much leaner. > > Now perhaps one or some of Ali's coaches or trainers had been exposed to > FMA, but Ali was just a (relatively) poor kid from Louisville, KY. His > secret FMA was fast feet, fast hands and a fast head on a big strong man > with a big strong heart. > > Thoughts from others?? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Old filipino boxers inquiry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:52:21 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > fighters in his weight division of all time. Muhammed Ali also acknowledged > Elorde's influence on his footwork when he was promoting his fight with > Frazier. I think Ali also credited his "anchor punch" that floored Sonny Liston in 1965 to one George Dillman. Who knows.?. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com FWIW, Ali's bio follows, from www.muhammad-ali.info: Muhammad Ali [Cassius M. Clay] Boxing b. Jan. 18, 1942, Louisville, KY The colorful and controversial Ali began taking boxing lessons when he was twelve years old at the urging of a Louisville policeman he talked to after his bike was stolen. As a high school student, he won the national Golden Gloves middleweight championship in 1959 and 1960 and the AAU national light heavyweight title in 1960, then went on to a gold medal in the Olympic light heavyweight division. Under his given name, Cassius Clay, he had his first professional fight on October 29, 1960. Before his sixth professional bout, against Lamar Clark on April 19, 1961, Clay predicted a 2nd-round knockout and was right. He continued making predictions, often in rhyme, and making them come true until March 13, 1963. On that date, he won a questionable 10-round decision over Doug Jones after predicting a 4th-round knockout. Clay was a heavy underdog when he met Sonny Liston for the heavyweight championship on February 25, 1964, at Miami Beach, FL. But he won the fight when Liston failed to come out for the 8th round, claiming a shoulder injury. In a rematch on May 25, 1965, Clay knocked Liston out with a "phantom punch" that few observers saw in the 1st round at Lewiston, ME. Shortly after becoming champion, Clay announced that he had become a Black Muslim and changed his name to Muhammad Ali. He defended the title eight times in the next twenty months. In the meantime, he had refused induction into the Army. As a result, his license was revoked by the New York State Boxing Commission, his title was stripped, and he was sentenced to five years in prison for draft evasion. While the conviction was being appealed, Ali was inactive for more than two years and announced his retirement early in 1970. He returned to the ring shortly afterward, knocking out Jerry Quarry in the 3rd round on October 26, 1970, at Atlanta. After a court ordered New York to restore his license, he fought the new champion, Joe Frazier, at Madison Square Garden on March 8, 1971. Frazier won a brutal 15-round fight on a unanimous decision. The U. S. Supreme Court overturned his conviction on June 29, 1971, and Ali won the North American Boxing Federation's championship by knocking out Jimmy Ellis in the 12th round less than a month later. He lost it on a 12-round decision to Ken Norton, regained it by outpointing Norton in 12 rounds, and then beat Frazier on a 12-round decision to gain a world title fight against George Foreman, who had also beaten Frazier. Ali knocked Foreman out in the 8th round on October 30, 1974, at Kinshasa, Zaire, in the first heavyweight championship fight ever held in Africa. He was named fighter of the year by Ring magazine. He and Frazier shared the 1975 award after their celebrated "Thrilla in Manila" fight on October 1, when Ali won with a 14th-round knockout. After ten defenses, Ali lost the title to Leon Spinks on a 12-round decision February 15, 1978, but regained it for a third time with a 15-round decision on September 15. He then announced his retirement. He came out of retirement for another championship fight, against Larry Holmes on October 2, 1980. Holmes knocked him out in the 11th round. Ali retired for good after losing a 1981 decision to Trevor Berbick. "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee," a phrase coined by corner man Drew "Bundini" Brown, aptly described Ali's remarkable combination of speed and power during his prime, when he fought at about 210 pounds. Record: 61 fights, won 56, 37 by KO; lost 5, 1 by KO. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Carlo Arellano To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:30:20 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Old filipino boxers inquiry (CARLO ARELLANO) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ali may have learned his style of fottwork both directly and indirectly from FMA. There was a change from the old English style of boxing to the modern one we have now when boxers in hawaii bagan adopting FMA techniques back in the 1920's and it spread to the rest of the profession. Flash Ellorde, former world lightweight champion, in particular was known for his flashy dancing footwork way before Ali, and he and Muhammad Ali were close. That Ali learned footwork which originally came from Filipino fighters who influenced boxing at large back in the 20's, most definitely. Whether or not he learned some moves directly from Flash, it is possible. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:19:34 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Modern Arnis Blasphemy - No Disrespect Here Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Regarding Professor Dan Anderson's question about his system being disrespectful to the late Remy Presas the answer is NO. In fact, Dan may be the only Modern Arnis senior instructor that truly is respectful of the late Grandmaster. Dan does not profess to be the # 1 instructor, the inheritor, the supreme Grandmaster, the Chief Instructor, the prime successor, of Modern Arnis. He does not want to be construed as the late Remy Presas' equal as some other instructors want you to believe of them. He is simply Professor Dan Anderson, founder of Modern Arnis 80. At the World Head of Family Sokeship Council event last year, Dan started and ended his demo by paying respect to the late Remy Presas and throughout his demo stated this is what Remy showed him, taught him, etc. Finally, I saw Professor Remy Presas in 1974 demonstrate. I saw Professor Dan Anderson demonstrate in 2002. I saw Modern Arnis on both occasions. Enough said. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:47:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] not for wussies (fwd) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just for fun... Fowarded message: http://www.royalcanadianmountedspetsnaz.com/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:54:07 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Flash Elorde Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net you writes: > > In reference to the filipino boxers of old, and to the current sensation > Pacquio (? not sure of the spelling sorry!), is there any truth in saying > that there is a influence of the weapons arts in their skills? It might be Paquito. > > I have spoken with my instructor and was told that Muhammed Ali once stayed > with a Filipino champion boxer,when he was in the Philippines. Im not > exactly sure of the source but it was said that Ali's footwork had elements > of FMA footwork. This, I believe, came from the father of this filipino > champion who was an escrimador! > > This is true, during the Thrilla in Manila on the 70's, Ali stayed and trained over San Lazaro Boxing place own and operated by the Filipino Boxing Sensation "Flash Elorde" . He is also known practices Arnis, he is from Visaya. Very good fighter, and good teacher. I believed that you can retrieved his records to the Philippine Boxing Committee. Anyway what your instructor told you is all true. Salamat, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, www.MartialArtsResource.com, www.Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest