Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:42:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #30 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Native American Weapons (Jeremy Bays) 2. Re: combat judo (Kes41355@aol.com) 3. Re: addendum to my last post (Kes41355@aol.com) 4. Defensor Method-Chicago Area Seminars (Sidney525@aol.com) 5. "Combat Judo" in the Philippines (jose saguisabal) 6. Re: Champions of the Great Pinoy Boxing Era (M1MtnBike@aol.com) 7. Combat Judo (Stephen Lamade) 8. Re: Re: combat judo (Ray Terry) 9. Pro Judo (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jeremy Bays" To: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:26:48 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Native American Weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have seen this book in our University library. It is a pretty informative book that presents the different catagories of weapons (projectile, striking, defensive,etc.). At this point I must say that I have seen some true Native American fighting done. I find it hard to call it s "style" or "system" because the person I spoke with on the Oklahoma reservation said that there is no set method but each person is encouraged to find what works best for themselves. I observed a tomahawk demostration that looked very much like the 12 Angle Strikes of many FMA. -Jeremy Bays --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:54:27 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: combat judo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, "Combat Judo" refers to a relatively new sport that debuted not long after the UFC became popular. In traditional judo, the objective is to win the match by Ippon (a full-point throw in which the thrower had total control throughout the technique, and maintains control once the throwee hits the mat), by Wazari (a half-point awarded for a good throw, but less than perfect execution) or by submission via an arm bar or choke. Like sport (point) karate, the action is stopped after each skirmish if the referee thinks one of the players has scored a valid point. In Combat Judo, the action continues non-stop for a pre-determined length of time (I believe 60 to 90 seconds, not sure of the exact length of each period), and points are tallied at the end of the match. I saw a combat judo tournament on late-night TV about a year or so ago, and as a former judo player myself, I loved the concept. It made more sense to the audience, since "real" fights continue until someone is beaten or submits, and the players are forced to be in better cardiovascular shape to endure, and must rely more on technique than strength, also to last for the full match. I have no clue how "Combat Judo" relates to empty hand FMA's...like Mike Casto, the terms I'm familiar with in reference to the empty hand Filipino arts are Kadena de Mano, Dumog, Buno, Panuntukan, Suntukan, and Pangamut. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 1/23/03 9:47:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I noticed that in a lot of FMA styles they refer to > their empty handed aspect as "Combat Judo." What does > this mean? --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:04:11 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: addendum to my last post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, An addition to my last post...it is possible to win a traditional judo match by pinning your opponent's shoulders to the mat for 30 seconds (damned hard to do for that long, so few matches are won this way). Most matches won on the ground are called when the person being choked or arm-barred taps out in submission. Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:19:34 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Defensor Method-Chicago Area Seminars Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Seminars Scheduled at Wheeling: January 10th, 2003 Friday: 7:30 - 10:30pm - Topic: Silat Entries and Takedowns January 24th, 2003 Friday: 7:30 - 10:30pm - Topic: Disarms and Locks February 14th Friday: 7:30 - 10:30pm - Topic: JKD Concepts/Lee Jun Fan & Sensitivity Drills February 28th Friday: 7:30 - 10:30pm - Topic: Muay Thai Training, Panatukan, & Balisong Manipulations/Knife drills March 14th Friday: 7:30 - 10:30pm - Topic: Serrada Counters, Flow Sparring, Lock n' Block March 28th Friday: 7:30 - 10:30pm - Topic: Pekiti-Tirsia 64-Attacks & 12-Seguidas Cost: $25 at Wheeling, IL. Register early via email to guronate@directvinternet.com to insure the seminar dates. 100 N. Milwaukee Ave. in Wheeling (the intersection of Milwaukee and Dundee (Northwest quadrant). Near Three Large Condominium Complex behind Beni-Hana Restaurant The Training Room is located between the first two buildings. 2 Hour "Defensor Method" Seminars slated for Saturdays 3:00pm - 5:00pm: Cost: $20 at Hackney's Reality Combat 800 W. Lake Street, Suite 108 Roselle, IL 60172 (all conducted by Guro Nate Defensor) Next Seminar: January 11th, 2003 Saturday 3-5pm Topic: Defensor Method Level I & II & III, Stick Sparring Drills II February 8th, 2003 Saturday 3-5pm Topic: Defensor Method Level I & II & III, Stick Sparring Drills III plus staff & daga sparring. February 22, 2003 Saturday 3-5pm Topic: Defensor Method Level I & II & III, Stick Sparring Drills IV plus Dos Manos. March 8, 2003 Saturday 3 -5pm - Topic: Defensor Method Level I & II & III, Empty Hand Sparring Drills I. March 22, 2003 Saturday 3 -5pm - Topic: Defensor Method Level I & II & III, Empty Hand FOR MORE INFO- CHECK THE WEBSITE @ WWW.DEFENSORMETHOD.COM --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:42:22 -0800 From: "jose saguisabal" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: [Eskrima] "Combat Judo" in the Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Been lurking, but... The terms "Combat Judo/Combat Arnis/Karate Arnis" refer to the Filipino FMArtist who forsakes "traditional" things like drills in favor of fighting techniques. I agree that it one is considered vogue or sophisticated when using anything foreign--martial arts or otherwise. Bottom line, many of the old arnisadors who were more into combat paid more attention to the empty hand aspects and may have added elements of karate or judo, or they made up their own techniques, but using the Japanese terms was preferred as they gave one a more positive image. Some styles were in fact combined with Judo or Karate, but I am told that most were not, but used the names to gain clout or students (ahem! Kali!) May I add that a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, regardless of what style the technique originated. Some instructors who made their own techniques, I am sure, were looking at what could be done to inflict the most damage to his opponent. And since many were too poor to afford lessons at a karate school, or did not have access to empty hand styles, simply created their own techniques and called them "karate/judo". In the 70s, when the Presas brothers were gaining popularity, one of their selling points was the fact that they had a strong background in the Japanese arts. I recall seeing an article that the last GM Remy said his art was a combination of Judo, Jujitsu, Karate, Kendo, oh, and Eskrima. The pictures that accompanied the article showed more emtpy hand than weapons. GM Ernesto Presas's school was known as "Arjuken Karate" (ARnis JUdo KENdo). He had, I recall, a full empty hands curriculum if you were not interested in weapons; yet, one still learned elements of Arnis. If you look at the forms of GM Carlito Lanada's Kuntaw ng Pilipinas, they are identical to Shorin Ryu's Pinan and Shotokan's Heian (so I was told by a trusted friend). My first exposure to Ngo Cho Kun Kung Fu was that it USED to be known as a Filipino Kuntaw style, until the 80s, the first time I saw it called a Kung Fu style. But I digress.... _____________________________________________________________ Get 25MB, POP3, Spam Filtering with LYCOS MAIL PLUS for $19.95/year. http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus&ref=lmtplus --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:43:09 -0500 From: M1MtnBike@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Champions of the Great Pinoy Boxing Era Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In response to the video documentary on Pinoy Boxers of the 1920'2-1930's era, it is currently available on "www.mybarong.com" for $9.95 (currently on sale). It was a friend of a friend who produced this video as a project while attending UCLA circa late 1980s. I have not seen it and cannot comment on it. - Bernie Bernal --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:04:37 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Combat Judo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From a post of mine last year: “My understanding of the term "combat judo" is that it refers to striking, locking, and throwing methods against an opponent armed with a knife or dagger. These techniques are adapted to Eskrima and bear little relation to Judo or classical Jujutsu. Perhaps the term may reflect the influence of Japanese martial arts in the Philippines. Or perhaps it reflects the experiences of eskrimadors during the Second World War - many of whom were active in the resistance." I have practiced some of the individual "combat judo" techniques of San Miguel Eskrima (empty-hand vs. knife). They are simple, direct, and effective: more in the line of military combatives than a classical Japanese style. I also have a tape of two of Momoy Canete’s students doing a “Combat Judo” two-man drill. At some point in the drill, one person “loses” the knife to the other and the roles are reversed. The drill is done very hard on what looks to be a concrete floor. The opponent counters most of the locks and throws, and keeps on repeating his attack after being thrown. The attacks are basic attacks (what the average person might do instead of what someone well-trained in knife combatives might do) – although there are some feints, and the attacks are always in-balance. There is no groundwork. Best, Steve Lamade San Miguel Eskrima Association Stephen G. Lamade _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: combat judo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:34:35 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > "Combat Judo" refers to a relatively new sport that debuted not long after > the UFC became popular. In traditional judo, the objective is to win the > match by Ippon (a full-point throw in which the thrower had total control > throughout the technique, and maintains control once the throwee hits the > mat), by Wazari (a half-point awarded for a good throw, but less than perfect > execution) or by submission via an arm bar or choke. Like sport (point) > karate, the action is stopped after each skirmish if the referee thinks one > of the players has scored a valid point. In Combat Judo, the action > continues non-stop for a pre-determined length of time (I believe 60 to 90 > seconds, not sure of the exact length of each period), and points are tallied > at the end of the match. Is the name of that Combat Judo or Sport Judo? It sounds like you are describing Mike Swain's Sport Judo. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:28:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Pro Judo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry, my bad. Mike Swain's new angle on Judo was/is called Pro Judo or Pro Sport Judo. http://www.swainsportsintl.com/projudo/ Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, www.MartialArtsResource.com, www.Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest