Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 03:01:51 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #32 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. "Combat Judo" and FMA in Boxing? (Leo Salinel) 2. Re: Combat Judo Karate (COMJUKA) (William T. Anderson) 3. Re: more judo (Kes41355@aol.com) 4. Combat Judo (Garrote Olisi Eskrimador) 5. Re: Re: Combat Judo Karate (COMJUKA) (Ray Terry) 6. Satisfying joke... (Jeff Harris) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:33:10 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "Combat Judo" and FMA in Boxing? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks to Guro Steve Lamade of San Miguel eskrima and my countryman John Saguisabal (as well as Guro Ray Terry) for the explanations. I've seen pictures of arnis masters such as the late GM Benjamin Lema of Lightning Scientific Arnis doing demos, and on the background walls their names would be inscribed "GM Benjamin Luna Lema, Grandmaster and Founder, Lightning Scientific Arnis, Master of Arnis AND COMBAT JUDO", and Visayan arnisadors like GM Momoy Canete who called his empty hands "Combat Judo" as well as several others. So it turns out to be another Filipino trait of appropriating words and giving them new meaning, altho kababayan Joe Saguisabal's explanation of karate/judo getting intermixed at several instances with FMA empty hands is well taken. Indeed, the "Combat Judo" I saw looked more like the usual FMA weapons-oriented military type combatives than Japanese grappling. As for FMA influence on boxing, honestly that's as my compadre Ronald Isla just stated--we Flips tend to exaggerate things to make ourselves look good instead of being downright honest. Think of our propensity to call impromptu street fights as "death matches" to wow you wide-eyed Americans. There is little influence, if at all, of FMA on boxing footwork. Whatever similarities in concepts and strategy is as we say in Filipino, "nagkataon lang" or "by chance". ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "William T. Anderson" To: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 21:12:54 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo Karate (COMJUKA) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I usually just lurk on the group, but due to the fact that Comjuka was brought up, I had to break my vow of silence. I trained with GM Rafael Reston in his version of Comjuka when I was stationed in the Philippines back in the mid to late 70's and early 80's.. I was visiting the Philippines in 2000 and had a long talk with GM Reston on the history of Comjuka and the Sinko Tiros Eskrima system that was taught to us at the time... GM Reston had prepared a manuscript on his training in Comjuka prior, during and after WW2 and he was generous enough to give me a copy of it. As far as Tuhon Ruby's Combat Judo Kali, I have had the opportunity to talk to some of her instructors in the Philippines as they were some of GM Reston's friends and we had a tight group of martial artists from the Lanada Kuntaw and Reston Comjuka clubs... My instructor, Conrado Turla, was ranked in both Lanada Kuntaw and GM Reston's Comjuka. So we got the best of both worlds in training of these arts... When I was first introduced to Lanada Kuntaw, our club at Clark was called Maharlika Kuntaw Kungfu, as Kyud Con was still teaching the kungfu aspects of the art... It wasn't until the late 70's that Con really started teaching the hard Karate aspects of the Kuntaw system to the beginners. If there is an interest in the Reston version of Comjuka I will be more than willing to post some of the manuscript that GM Reston wrote and describe his training of this art and the Sinko Tiros Balintawak systems. Bill Maharlika Kuntao Guam --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:35:40 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: more judo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Just some memories from my old judo days... I remember that after a few months of judo class, Sensei began showing some of us what appeared to be basic karate strikes; punches and some low-line kicks, but mostly palm heel strikes, hacks (shuto-type blows), and some elbow and knee shots, coupled with what were called "pressure-point" attacks. We were told that these strikes were part of the "advanced" curriculum of traditional judo, and were called "Atemi." Atemi was used to loosen up the opponent before a throw, to facilitate a choke or arm bar, or to finish the job (i.e., chops to the throat, stomps to the ribs) after throwing the opponent to the ground. One very interesting technique shown was how to get a choke in once the opponent had tucked his chin in to protect the throat; from behind your opponent, as if applied the "naked choke" (Hadaka Jime, the choke most familiar to everyone, forearm around the throat, forearm and bicep flexed to cut off the carotids, other hand behind the head pushing the head down), you simply dig the thumb joint into the jawline and drive it across the jaw. Painful as hell, and pops the guys chin right up. There was also a distinction made between "chokes" and "strangles"...a choke blocked the airway, but a strangle blocked the carotid arteries, and was infinitely more dangerous. A choke takes several seconds to disable, but a strangle incapacitates immediately, and we were not permitted to apply strangles in class unless Sensei or Senpai were present, since they knew how to revive. Occasionally Senpai would take a few of us off to a corner of the mat and show us what he called "self defense." The "tricks" he showed us (using the chin into the back, thigh, temple, and using your upper forehead to dig into the man's temple, ribs, and kidneys) to facilitate locks, chokes and pins, were things I would see again years later when my brother, a high school varsity wrestler, would use these "techniques" on me to humble his cocky black belt brother. I also remember that although "Judo" translates as the "Gentle Way," there was nothing "gentle" about the application (i.e., a throwing technique called Maki Komi, in which the thrower held onto the throwee, followed him to the ground, and falling on his rib cage...took the starch right out of you). The judo players and instructors I met over a short two to three year time span were among the toughest individuals (male and female) that I have ever encountered, and could put a person in a world of hurt in a hurry. To this day I have a deep respect for a judo player's fighting ability, and would face one only with extreme caution and healthy respect. Kim Satterfield Midwest School of Eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 03:45:24 -1100 From: "Garrote Olisi Eskrimador" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Subject: [Eskrima] Combat Judo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Combat Judo is a contradiction in terms. It was coined by some enterprising Eskrima instructors to label the empty-handed applications of the FMA to earn recognition and legitimacy during the late 50's up to the 60's when judo and karate gained worldwide popularity. It also made good business sense for Eskrima instructors to teach the Japanese Martial Arts like Judo and Karate, thus many of them sought formal instruction in Judo and Karate to gain ranking. However, some of the purists in Cebu City, simply stuck to the terms Pangamut and Eskrima. In some remote towns in Cebu province you can still find Eskrimadors that have remained virtually isolated from the outside world with a wide repertoire of empty hand techniques. And if you ask them if there is any jiu-jitsu, karate or judo influence in their art...they'll tell you they haven't heard of those things- it's just Eskrima. Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Combat Judo Karate (COMJUKA) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:37:53 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > If there is an interest in the Reston version of Comjuka I will be more than > willing to post some of the manuscript that GM Reston wrote and describe his > training of this art and the Sinko Tiros Balintawak systems. Please do. That would be great! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jeff Harris" To: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:22:50 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Satisfying joke... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, fellow Listers. The following joke was mailed to me, and it just seemed appropriate to share with my fellow FMA students: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Question: You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner and is running at you while screaming obscenities. In your hand is a Glock .40 and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do? Liberal Answer: Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that is inspiring him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion. Conservative Answer: BANG! Texan's Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click... (sounds of clip being ejected and fresh clip installed) Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?" Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..." BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! Daughter: "Nice grouping Daddy! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeffery (Jeff) Harris JLHOnami@mchsi.com "Don't confuse meekness and weakness. Meekness is the restraint of defense; weakness is the lack of defense." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, www.MartialArtsResource.com, www.Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest