Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:37:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #45 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: WMAA Promotion & Crossada de Mano questions (JefferyJ.Leader) 2. just do this.... (bob) 3. old topic2: Kali, Eskrima, Arnis & Grandmaster Villabrille (orlando lacro) (orlando lacro) 4. Grandmaster Villabrille (orlando lacro) 5. Lineage, History, I'll even throw in some popcorn.... (Bobster) 6. Boxing and Kali: Merging the Arts. (Kevin) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Jeffery J. Leader To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: WMAA Promotion & Crossada de Mano questions Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 00:09:33 -0500 Organization: . Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:10:02 -0800, Absolom Jones wrote: >How can an "Advisory Board" take this kind of action? Thanks for your message. The Board name was debated. While most of its actions are of an advisory nature, the Board also has certain other responsibilities that might be a better fit with another name. However, as there is only one Board, a single name was chosen. I ask you to look beyond the semantics on this point. It is correct that all Board members are WMAA members and that Mr. Hartman and Mr. Anderson were the highest-ranked members of our organization before this promotion (both 6th degree). The Board is following what we consider to be the 'Kenpo model' of promotion, used after the passing of Ed Parker, Sr. In many cases, senior Kenpoka were promoted by similar boards. We feel it's an appropriate model in the current circumstances. These are trying times for Modern Arnis, and we are doing the best we can, through our organization, to keep the art moving forward. Many other organizations are doing the same. There is no clear path. We hope you can wish us well in the WMAA; we certainly send well-wishes to our sister Modern Arnis organizations. Sincerely, Jeff Leader Chair, WMAA Advisory Board --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "bob" To: Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:38:25 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] just do this.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <>> LMAO...Well I guess I'm not as dumb as I seem. This is exactly what I have gotten from many a source! People ask me what I am doing and I say I don't know. They think I am keeping something from them. But really I don't know! That must mean I'm learning the real stuff right? Regards, C.H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:00:26 -0800 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: orlando lacro Subject: [Eskrima] old topic2: Kali, Eskrima, Arnis & Grandmaster Villabrille (orlando lacro) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Again, Those were some great responses concerning the various names of the Pilipino Martial Arts. Whether it be Kali, Eskrima, or Arnis and regardless if Kali is the "Mother Art" or not; it is good to see individuals approach these questions with a little more common sense instead of with the bias and egotism or lack of credible knowledge displayed of past practicioners. As Leo Salinel mentioned, yes stories should be approached into proper perspective, and as Ray Terry mentioned, "Villabrille responded, "Eskrima, Kali... same same", and as Tabula Raza mentioned "Its really embarassing I think, to have people use history as a crutch rather than a catalyst in enlightenment." & "Rather I'd like to think of it as, "all have influenced each other directly or indirectly through observant influence, friendly exchange, or deadly encounter." I apologize for pulling quotes out like that after I implied that it was a bit dangerous to do. But I think these were some general quotes showing no bias which can be used for the better of all. I hope my previous email served as a catalyst for more responsable analyzation of the Pilipino Martial Arts both conceptually as well as historically. Maybe some day we will discover all of the questions asked of every Pilipino martial Artist in the world; but until then, we should build a foundation based on commen sense and facts instead of biased opinions. And to answer Leo Salinel's question about Alonan park... On the certificate it is spelled "Alonan". Alonan Park, Manila as a whole. I personally do not know where an Alonan Park would be, but as one who has studied Anthropology and Archaeology (ever so lightly), that name could lead to a various number of routes. It could be an actual park, maybe it was a stadium, maybe another park was built over it, or maybe it was a given name for a designated area for those particular sporting events which were later torn down after the event, or maybe a park which simply dissapeared in which the land was used for other purposes. Sometimes things should not be taken so literally when doing research, and maybe sometimes they should be taken very literally. The best way to approach this is by good old fashioned elbow grease and imagination. Just a lot of hard work researching a lot of old documents and city maps, etc. And this was not a certification; it was just a certificate, an award for winning a fight (a very important one). This certificate was an actual copy given to the Villabrille family from the actual museum housing it in the Cebu area or close by. If you are in the Philippines and would like to verify the location of the museum and its authenticity to other practitioners, it would be a very rare momento important to the Pilipino martial Arts. Another realistic historical endevour would be to go in to the archived hawaiian newspapers to see if any of his many matches were announced. They were public events back then, so it is highly possible to come across a newspaper which may have chronicled Grandmaster Villabrilles fights. I am in neither place so I can not approach a task of that nature which requires so much time in research. But with Grandmaster Villabrille, we have an opportunity to do research looking in to various resources such as newspapers, it is said he did fight in the last public death match in Hawaii. So here is an individual in which some of his accomplishments can realistically be researched instead of falling in to the stigma of just a story and myth. Now this can be done with the history of any Grandmaster if any documents existed in which they would be a part of. I only mentioned Grandmaster Villabrille since I basically only know about him and all of the others in the Villabrille-Largusa Kali System in which I am a part of. So again I am not trying to be biased towards any one art. I use these as examples for others to objectify and challenge themselves in finding the answers they want to ask of the Pilipino Martial Arts. Peace be with you, Orlando lacro --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "orlando lacro" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 07:31:07 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Grandmaster Villabrille Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, This is a question for Leo Salinel since you have experiance in being a historian. This question is about Gov. General Frank Murphy. In that time period of 1931-1935, what was the role of the Governor General of Manila? Was he similar to a Mayor, Governor or a President? Was this an American Military based government, or was he like a represenative of America to govern a certain region of the Philippines? I am very curious. The answer could also help paint a picture for us on how the Philippines used to be at that time period, and Maybe it could answer some questions about the Pilipino Martial Arts and its Hows and Whys at the same time. Thanks... Peace be with you, Orlando lacro _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:00:38 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Lineage, History, I'll even throw in some popcorn.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is much being passed around these days on the subject of lineage & history, in the FMA. Some of it will undoubtedly raise some hackles in the comunity. I wanted to remind everybody of one fact: Unless you were present at whatever event (the blind princess, Villabrille's "Death Match", etc) is in dispute, your information, no matter what the source, is secondhand. In this respect, it has that same element in common with the person you are in dispute with: You didn't see it with your own eyes. I have heard TONS of stories about Floro Villabrille, how he got his training, how good he was, etc. Some of this information came from members of his own family. Others came from people who had trained directly under him, or Ben Largusa. Some stories coincide, others conflict. Whatever the case is in truth, I must always bear in mind that I WASN'T THERE. Everybody wants thier Guru or Grandmaster to walk on water, and as a member of the Cacoy Canete Doce Pares system, I am no different. However, I am only 33 years old, and wasn't around in World War Two. I appreciate the various history & lessons my teachers who WERE there give me, but ultimately, I look at skill: Does what they are teaching WORK? Is it PRACTICAL? Can I make it work for ME? Otherwise, I must look at it as cultural supposition: Could be true, but I wouldn't qualify as an expert, because I wasn't there. Mr. Legaspi, I applaud your posting, you speak of things that few others will approach. There is a Filipino student in the Wing Chun school I train at who has mentioned something along the lines of "Worshipping Bones" of ancestors. I will ask him more about this. I also appreciated your quote: "knowledge itself is full of dynamically changing paradigms". I couldn't agree more, although I would add, "When new information is uncovered". Bobbe Edmonds "Habit and Tradition should not be above criticism, nor should the dead rule the living." --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:21:11 -0500 From: Kevin To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Boxing and Kali: Merging the Arts. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I would appreciate some input since I am new to Kali. I have a good boxing background with a touch of "Karate" which has served me well on the street so far. Well all I can say is that I am still alive. I started taking Kali a few months ago and love the style. I am fairly good with my hands and footwork, and the style "feels good". I am starting to run into a problem. Since my basic skill is boxing which is more fighting at a distance, I have long arms for my height, compared to Kali which I see as fighting at an extremely close distance I am a little perplex on how to merge the two. I have always looked at a fight like a chess game: Beginning Game, Middle Game and End Game. Usually at the end of the Beginning Game, the person gets desperate and attempts to drag me to the ground if he can get close enough. I have two concerns. One is that just about anyone I have fought on the street has been bigger, and stronger. The other is they are seldom alone. So getting pulled to the ground is an option I tenaciously avoid. Is it possible to effectively merge both Arts? Any advice would be appreciated. Kevin --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest