Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 03:01:50 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #46 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Crossada, Promations, and what not (rocky pasiwk) 2. Mr. Villabrille (Mark Harrell) 3. deathmatches (Ray Terry) 4. Re: deathmatches (Mike Casto) 5. Bobbe Edmonds (Musilat@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:20:07 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Crossada, Promations, and what not Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net First let me say that I am sorry for taking so long to post a reply to your request Ray, for info on Crossada De Mano. I have been sicker than a dog the past week. But first let me attend to a few other tid bits. Absolom wrote: >The fact that you have >greater details and information does not invalidate the brief bit of >information provided by Westbrook Why are you trying to insinuate something here, I don't here Mr. Westbrook, taking any offense. Where at anytime did I say Mr. Westbrook was not correct in his statement. I simply corrected him on the spelling of crossada. So take it easy killer!!!! As for the Chinese influence on Modern Arnis, wow, I didn't know that. I do know that Crossada De Mano and traditional Balintawak have some body mechanics that are similar to Hsing I. This probably has something to do with the fact that there is only so many ways to generate power speed and fluidity properly, and if you are doing it right, than you will look like any number of other arts that are doing it right. Now there are some later versions of Balintawak that were incorporated with Kung Fu, this is not my specialty though so I really can't comment. Modern Arnis body mechanic, have more of a Shotokan influence, right down to the modified Shotokan, forms or Anyo's. Remy found the broken down, simplistic forms of Karate much easier to teach, especially since the bulk of his students were Karate people. This is where Professor and I never saw eye to eye. Fact is he was quite pissed at the fact that when he was putting together I believe Anyo # 5, the one with the bolo punch's in it, he and my father kinda worked on it together and when Professor asked me what I thought I told him it looked like Karate with a few Filipino type hand movements. he wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the day, we were suppose to play football that night and he refused to play shorting my team and costing us the game!! Now as far as Crossada being a good art to defend against kicker's Ray. I can guess that being an old Tang Soo Do guy you have probably come up with blocking that is very similar to crossada's . Think of a round kick coming to the head your right side to be exact. In Crossada you would step linear (straight) into your opponents center with your left leg, left hand up across your face right hand down elbow up forming a x, chin tucked into right shoulder like a boxer upper torso slightly twisted towards the kick jamming it as much as possible, upon impact the body leans away slightly absorbing the impact as much as possible and hooking the leg. The slight lean on impact does two things it helps absorb the impact and takes you away from the opponents hands. That is a very simplistic over view. Now against a boxers straight right for example. If and this is a very big if..... You can slip slightly to the left and parry with your left, this is the hard part most people practice parrying, but the trick is to parry and lean in slightly too, at the same time your lead hand will try to hammer down across the inside of his elbow causing his arm to fold slightly and off balancing him, then your right arm strikes forward in a twisting fore arm strike to the right side of his head as you move forward with your left arm doing the same cross face type of strike to his head from the opposite side in a criss cross fashion, hence crossada. Again this is a very basic example and of course there are counter for counter drills. As far as me teaching some of these things I'll tell you why I don't teach to much of the Modified Balintawak or the Crossada, two words well maybe three " NO F*#K'N RESPECT " over the years I have showed dozens of people bits and peaces of various things that Remy taught me, I have a falling out with Remy people don't think I train any more many newbies don't even know who I am, and when I do resurface from time to time these people are doing things I showed them but telling everyone they learned it from Remy, cause it makes them feel or seem closer to him and they wish to project that to others, so most of the stuff stays with me and a select few, and my kids. At least until I see changes.If something happens to me in the mean time and the stuff is lost, my kids have it on video and if they see fit to doing something with it fine if not, to bad so sad I owe nobody nothing!!!!!!! Now my 2 cents on the Tim Hartman issue, it is no secrete to some that Tim and I have had a slight falling out we have agreed that we will try to discuss our differences, and we will either work it verbally and go back to being buddies and eat some Hot wings together or we will attempt to beat hell out of each other, then go out eat hot wings and be buddies again, every once in a while these things happen, either way it will work out, we have always had a good time together in the past. As far as his being promoted by his organization, what business is it of anyone else's. He is running one of the best Modern Arnis organizations around, far more professional then anything anyone else has done. And in his defense who else is going to test him, his organization has taken every step possible to make it as legit as possible, what more do you want??? Let me ask you this what should I do if the board members of USMAC the modern arnis association I put together were to decide to advance my rank, I have no one left to test me!! Hell there is not a single Modern Arnis guy out side of my people that even knows our empty hand form, which is one form from white to black belt broken into six parts, consisting of over 3500 moves, and resembles Silat and some Hsing I . Or the six seghetis's that are unique to our method of Modern Arnis. I think they did the best job they could do, and that is that, if you don't like it don't get involved. Sorry this post was so long Ray Rocky Pasiwk DQ151 degree Blackbelt --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Mark Harrell" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:31:44 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Villabrille Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My question to Mr. Orlando lacro is: Why don't you ask your many questions with regards to Mr. Villabrille's fight record and training to the Kali Association of America, Mr. Ben Largusa who was Mr. Villabrille's successor, or to the current director of the KAA, Mr. Mel Lopez? These are the people who have been making many of the claims and telling stories for decades. Why not start with the information provided by the people who are the choosen successors to the Villabrille legacy and then go from there... The burden of proof is really is one them in my opinion. Peace be with you, Mark Harrell _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:20:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] deathmatches Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Back on the topic of "Deathmatches", FWIW please consider... >From the tradition of 'the older I get, the meaner I was' and people making a standard claim of 'boy, we were just dead after that workout last night'. I truely suspect something along that line is one way many (most?) of the deathmatch stories came to be. "I really killed that guy last night..." :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:30:42 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] deathmatches To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My impression, FWIW, is that the "death matches" weren't "fights to the death." They were simply all out fights with weapons and no padding where death was a distinct possibility and did sometimes occur. But they could also be won by knocking the opponent out, disabling the opponent physically, or by submission. Like I say, this is the impression I've gotten ... whether right or wrong, I don't know ... as others have pointed out, I wasn't there. But I think it's logical. As for the hyperbole ... tales are like children ... they tend to get taller every time you see them. Mike --- Ray Terry wrote: > Back on the topic of "Deathmatches", FWIW please > consider... > > From the tradition of 'the older I get, the meaner I > was' and people making > a standard claim of 'boy, we were just dead after > that workout last night'. > > I truely suspect something along that line is one > way many (most?) of the > deathmatch stories came to be. > > "I really killed that guy last night..." :) > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ===== Mike Casto I.M.P.A.C.T. Academy - http://www.impactacademy.com Asian Fighting Arts - http://www.asianfightingarts.com Lansdale's Self-Defense - http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan Martial Arts Seminar Listing Page - http://seminars.guild-hall.com Martial Arts School Database - http://schools.guild-hall.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:08:12 -0500 From: Musilat@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Bobbe Edmonds Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, "Habit and Tradition should not be above criticism, nor should the dead rule the living." The above quote that Mr. Edmonds included in his last post may be one of the most relevant to martial arts I've ever heard/read! I'm glad someone said it. The two things that have never ceased to amaze me since I began my training is how people tend to worship their instructor and resist growth/experimentation within their "art". What a joke. ITS ART! CREATE! And Worship another man?! I don't think so. The absolute beauty of FMA is that the scope of material is so broad that you can easily make the arts your own. I don't mean that you should be disrespectful towards your teacher. You shouldn't be. He gave you his time and knowledge and therefore deserves the proper respect. If however he discourages you from being a creative being, then he is disrespecting you and you should move on. Don't be rude to him, just move on. People that are older than you and have more knowledge than you deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to respect, but ultimately, respect must be earned. It is not a given. Now if you do choose to branch off on your own, you can't just throw together techniques and call it your system. I mean, I guess you could, because many have, but if there is not a solid foundation (understanding of balance, center line, range, etc.) supporting your techniques, its B.S. plain and simple. A good gauge of the strength of your foundation is this: If you understand the foundation, techniques that were never taught to you will begin to present themselves and your technical vocabulary will increase as a result of your understanding. If your foundation is weak, all you will ever have is what you have been taught and you will be forced to depend on your teacher. Many commercial teachers depend on their students to be just this way so they can keep the lights on. This is good for their business and horrible for your creativity and general personal growth. Having said this, I have not, at this point, created my own system, so what I just said is not meant to be at all self serving. When I studied music, I learned from the best people I could find (to establish a solid foundation)and then just played my instrument until what I learned became second nature. After that, what came out of me was my own music and I felt no need at all to give people an endless list of the music I listened to and the people I was lucky enough to study under. The end result spoke for itself. My teachers told me to "learn all you can and then forget it" I approach martial arts in exactly that way. I could go on forever about this, but I'll spare all of you my ranting (for now anyway). I just think what we do needs to be kept in the proper perspective, thats all. If knowledge is the end, experience is the means. Don't let the egos and insecurities of others limit your development. Continued good health and personal growth to all of you. Best, Steve Kohn Torrance, CA --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest