Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:51:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #47 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Gov. Gen. Frank Murphy and the FMA (Leo Salinel) 2. SOMETHING ABOUT TITLES (S. H. WEE) 3. changing thymes (Dale) 4. Empty Hands (Ray Terry) 5. old topic3: Kali, Eskrima, Arnis & Grandmaster Villabrille (orlando lacro) 6. Co-existence of digest and non-digestified (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:53:33 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Gov. Gen. Frank Murphy and the FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Boss Orly, Gov General Frank Murphy was the American colonial governor for the Philippines before the Commonwealth was put up. He was something like a state's governor today, or like the Governor of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico or something like that. The point about Alonan/Alunan Park is well taken. A lot of markers and places vanished before and during WW2 and I have recently discovered hitherto unknown sites just by going around what was left of old prewar Manila and Quezon City. can anyone here post a pic of the certificate issued by Gov Gen Frank Murphy? One question for Chad Getz and his Hawaii boys: So your grandpa taught you "carrenza" with empty hands? I hope you'll tell me that he did not have karate or kungfu or jujitsu exposure, since if he had none of that then that would mean that there really is an old empty hands element to the FMA that existed even before the "Dan Inosanto" phenomenon when the FMA first went public. Can someone please tell me if GM Johnny Lacoste's pics in Guro Dan I.'s book THE FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS show him doing empty handed carrenza? ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "S. H. WEE" To: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:59:02 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] SOMETHING ABOUT TITLES Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Navarro, I agree with you, anyone can call himself "proffesor", just as anyone can call himself "pope" or "Mullah" even if he is not a Christian or Muslim. However, I believe that the Proffesor title GM Presas used originated from the Judo circle who's founder happened to be a genuine proffesor. Those who has attended college will tell you that even in the universities, you do not have that many proffesors in each faculty, usually one or two. I have no problem of GM Presas using the title "proffesor", he deserved it. He has spent more time in the art than most real proffesors would have done in academic studies. However, I DO have a problem when somebody call himself a "proffesor" wihout going thorough the hard works. IMHO, "proffesor" for FMA should only be reserved for those masters whos skill is on par or better than Proffesor Resas, otherwise, it would be an insult to FMA circle. Just my two cents worth. S. H. Wee > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:23:43 -0800 (PST) > From: NAVARRO FULBERT > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] SOMETHING ABOUT TITLES > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > GREETINGS MR. WEE, > > I may have to correct you a bit on > the application of the title professor in Filipino > Martial Arts system. Martial Arts and the Academe have > diffences in the system -->there is no standard > system. Although I could say that I have not enough > background on the art but carrying the title > "PROFESSOR" is no big deal. If his system requires > that he be addressed that way then fine. Its just like > carrying a name. Anyone may choose to carry the title > "PROFESSOR" even if he has not finished College or > even Highschool as long as he is an expert on his > system and that he teaches his system with such > credibility and expertise which I believe that maybe > he is. In this art for me Sir, the academe is of no > importance. If someday I be able to master the art, I > may choose to carry whatever title that I wish; > Master, GrandMaster, Professor, Sensei, Teacher, > Supreme Master, Datu, Tuhon and etc. I can even call > myself "The Most Exalted Fool" for a title! The point > is that the man is trying to continue what the late > GrandMaster Prof. Remy Amador Presas had started and > if it means that he must carry the title "PROFESSOR" > too then so be it. It is pointless and illogical to > compare the Academic system and the Martial Artists' > system of acquiring titles. I hope you get my point > sir. > > Navarro, Fulbert A. > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dale" To: Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:33:46 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] changing thymes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rock said, "I simply corrected him on the spelling..." These times, they are a changing. (Long time digest members may remember years ago when Rock took a lot of teasing for his spelling.) See you in the sticks, Dale www.kalieskrima.com Hickory and Rattan --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:04:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Empty Hands Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So your grandpa taught you "carrenza" with empty > hands? I hope you'll tell me that he did not have > karate or kungfu or jujitsu exposure, since if he had > none of that then that would mean that there really is > an old empty hands element to the FMA that existed > even before the "Dan Inosanto" phenomenon when the FMA > first went public. ?? The FMA first went public in the US (outside of Hawaii) prior to Guro Dan becoming known outside of Stockton. The FMA first going public was when Dan first began his study of FMA. Would you agree? > Can someone please tell me if GM Johnny Lacoste's pics > in Guro Dan I.'s book THE FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS show > him doing empty handed carrenza? The early film footage of Lacoste does show him doing empty hand carrenza. See a few seconds of it in LaCoste.mov.gz and LaCoste.mov in the archives at ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in the Eskrima directory. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:44:29 -0800 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: orlando lacro Subject: [Eskrima] old topic3: Kali, Eskrima, Arnis & Grandmaster Villabrille Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Guro Mark, We have met once before in a practice in 1997 while preparing for an upcoming demonstration/cultural event in Fremont. I'm sure you do not remember, but I do. I try to remember everyone I meet in the Kali. And yes I have had many occasions in which I discussed these questions with the Grandmaster and Tuhan. But the purpose of my email was not to prove any point, especially for the art I train in. I wrote those succesive emails as Orlando Lacro, not Orlando Lacro of the Villabrille-Largusa Kali System. I wrote those emails to discuss how powerful the written word is, and how some people can take ideas to heart just because it is written in a book, or an article. Or even believe stories from spoken word, which in the end are only stories. Let me quote Erwin Legaspi, "Its really embarassing I think, to have people use history as a crutch rather than a catalyst in enlightenment.". I think he may understand that point. And thats what I was trying to convey. And yes I do agree with you about going to the source for answers; After all, I did mention that. I also agree with Bobbe Edmonds and what he had to say in his email. These were some of the underlying ideas I was trying to convey. I know we were not there, so how can we find the answers?. I know that. But to dispell any rumours, and to satisfy your own curiosities, I gave examples on how to research these topics. I only know about the Villabrille-Largusa Kali System, so I gave examples using its stories and history. If I knew the history of other arts then I would use theirs. But I don't. I was trying to write a positive email to help others understand the vastness of these topics and to know that there are not that many absolutes. I was trying to help others understand that if you would like to find some answers, then you should do some responsable research. I was not staking any claims to anything. But as always, no one seems to like to try to understand one anothers viewpoints. When these topics come up, everyone automatically builds walls in front of them in which they do not try to understand the intentions of another, but they automatically try to push their will and beleifs on them. And sometimes their beleifs are the same, and they don't even know it. Just as we see here. In the first of these emails I wrote that there were over 7,000 islands in the Philippines and over 100 languages with many groups having their own distinct cultural traditions. So I wrote, How can one person have the knowledge to claim that they know everything there is to know about the Pilipino Martial Arts in the Philippines?. I beleive no one can. So instead of arguing over who is right, and if you want to verify a story, or at least simply satisfy your own curiosity, then you should go do some research. But responsable research. That is what I was saying. But the minute I mention Grandmaster Villabrille, everyone seems to undermine that, and they assume I fall under the category of someone trying to prove a point. Let me say this again: I only gave examples of Grandmaster Villabrille and his Kali history because that is the only martial arts history I know. I even could have gotten more in depth. But these were only examples! Examples on how you can find a story and recognize it as something you can research, then to go out and research it yourself. That way you will know for yourself the answers that you are asking in the Pilipino Martial Arts. So if anyone has something to say about what I wrote, 9 times out of 10, I most likely will be agreeing with you. Do not assume what I have written, but try to understand what I have written. I'm just a regular guy trying to help others, and also a guy whom is trying to put out the flame that is behind all of these arguments. Just the flame, sometimes it is good to argue. I enjoy my training, and I love learning about the historical aspects of it also. And I would someday like to hear more of the historical aspects of other Pilipino Martial Arts, but it seems like a lot of people like to argue just for arguings sake instead of having good fun in the exchange of great stories and history. Peace be with you, Orlando Lacro --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:41:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Co-existence of digest and non-digestified Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A request... On the list, this list, we have two ways a person may be subscribed. They may choose to receive each post to the list as an individual email message or they may choose to receive the posts grouped together in a digest format (i.e. digestfied). A subscriber may change how they are subscribed by going to http://eskrima-fma.net, logging-in, and following the directions provided. One problem with this 'freedom' is that when those that are subscribed to the list in its non-digestfied form (an individual email per post) reply to a message they may quote the entire message to which they are replying. This can be a problem for those on the digest as they see the same long message over and over again. So the request is... please quote only the portions of interest or enough so that others may easily follow the thread. In other words, please trim your post. The other problem is when those on the digest form of the list simply reply to an issue of the digest. The subject of that message then becomes something like "Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #46 - 5 msgs". Not a very useful subject line for those receiving individual emails and wishing to follow a specific thread. Subject lines like "Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #46 - 5 msgs" also don't make the Table of Contents at the head of every digest issue very useful. So the request is... please update your email's subject line to be something useful -and- remember to trim your post. Any questions? Feel free to contact me offline. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest