Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 03:01:48 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #54 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Do you tweak on the sticks vol 10#52 (Handygd@aol.com) 2. LSAI (Luis Pellicer) 3. Thanks, Chad and Stickfighting Hawaii (Leo Salinel) 4. Re: Basics and Research (Kes41355@aol.com) 5. Atilo Balintawak (rocky pasiwk) 6. Re: Atilo Balintawak (Mike Casto) 7. fruit bat, WW2 and respect (David Eke) 8. CMA / FMA (Khalkee@netscape.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Handygd@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:00:31 EST Subject: [eskrima] Do you tweak on the sticks vol 10#52 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Chad, as I red your post and I looked around my office I counted four official sticks/weapons. Naw ,no stick tweakers around here. Don't know what your talking about. Greg Doucette --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: Luis Pellicer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] LSAI Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net //Are any of Gm Lema's children carrying on the art or is Elmer Ybanez going to head it up now???// One of Mang Ben's sons, Ben Jr. has been teaching in the States for a while, albeit low key. Aside from Elmer, there are other senior Instructors who have been around for a very long time, (as in when I started training with Mang Ben, 14 years ago, they were established instructors) they and the family will be getting together to sort things out. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 21:33:38 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Thanks, Chad and Stickfighting Hawaii Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks, Chad and Kalani for your description of Mr. Nitullama's empty hands component of his escrima (or 'kahoy' as he called it). I agree that dialectical differences in spelling can change the meaning of single words entirely with just one letter, but then a lot of the explanations given for certain things in the FMA are not determined by one or two letters, but by the personal biases and the usually limited education of the source doing the explanations. I mean, if these old "manongs" were schooled, then most probably they wouldn't be doing FMA at all. ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:52:27 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Basics and Research Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 2/8/03 6:43:50 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > I get what your saying, but I can't agree completely. I think that the > concepts that govern the techniques in the FMA are actually very concrete. > It's just that most people tend to focus more on the volume of technical > derivitives than the basic concepts from which they come. It's sort of a > case of not seeing the forest for the trees. The Chinese on the other hand > tend to solidify their systems and choose not to do much research (though > I'm sure there are exceptions). It's more about perfecting what they have. > The same basic concepts govern both groups of arts, which is why I feel > they can compliment each other. What makes them different is what concepts > they choose to emphasize. > > In music, everyone uses the same notes, but everyones music is unique and > they can all blend to some degree. Same idea here. > > Thanks for the input. > > Best, > Steve Kohn > > Hi all, Something I remember hearing Dan Inosanto say many years ago (at the Degerberg Academy in Chicago) concerning Muay Thai was why he felt the art was so deadly. Dan told us that one of the reasons he credits the Muay Thai fighters with having exceptional skills is the way the art is taught...he said that with Muay Thai, it isn't about how many techniques they have, but rather what they do with what they have that counts. He said they take a limited number of technique into the ring, but they had spent countless hours perfecting a few techniques, rather then try to up the number of techniques they used. They have everything down pat, down to pure instinct. This seems to be the way Mike Inay perpetuated his art...I didn't know Mike well, just met and trained with him a few times, but through Rob McDonald, a long time Inayan Guro, I got to know Mike vicariously. Rob's teaching is all about basics; drilling the daylights out of the basic concepts, then taking that training into the Inayan drills of flowsparring and lock and block. This heightens sensitivity and response time to an amazing level. I did get to know a few of Mike's upper tier Guros, and they are a scary lot (Michael Amistoso especially, along with Rob, are two highly skilled and talented individuals). Training with Rob is tough, no doubt about it, but you have to reach that type of mindset in training to develop realistic skills. I got the same adrenaline dump standing across from Rob when he was holding a stick in his hand as I do when faced with tough situations at work. At times like that, it isn't how much you know, but what you can do with what you have that counts. Your skills have to be honed to a fine level, and have to have been tested, when the stuff hits the fan for real. Kim Satterfield Midwest School of Eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:46:21 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Atilo Balintawak Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Was wondering if there are any of GM Atillos Balintawak people on the list, I have afew questions, I checked out a web site that has a history somewhat different from Gm Ted Buots, Gm Remy Presas, Gm Bobby Tobada, Master Delphane Lopez Gm Cannete's and a slue of others version of Balintawaks history. In fact its the first site I have seen that doesn't recognize GM Anciong Bacon as the founder of the art. Anyone have any info on this. Rocky --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 18:43:41 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Atilo Balintawak To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Wow ... nope. I have only had *very* peripheral exposure to Atilo Balintawak (about 30 minutes of it at a seminar with Dan Inosanto who has been training with Atilo). Who does he say is the founder of Balintawak? (I suppose I could look up the website, but my wife is already giving me sour looks because I'm taking too much time away from packing as it is). Mike --- rocky pasiwk wrote: > Was wondering if there are any of GM Atillos > Balintawak people on the list, > I have afew questions, I checked out a web site that > has a history somewhat > different from Gm Ted Buots, Gm Remy Presas, Gm > Bobby Tobada, Master > Delphane Lopez Gm Cannete's and a slue of others > version of Balintawaks > history. In fact its the first site I have seen that > doesn't recognize GM > Anciong Bacon as the founder of the art. > > > Anyone have any info on this. > > > Rocky > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ===== Mike Casto I.M.P.A.C.T. Academy - http://www.impactacademy.com Asian Fighting Arts - http://www.asianfightingarts.com Lansdale's Self-Defense - http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan Martial Arts Seminar Listing Page - http://seminars.guild-hall.com Martial Arts School Database - http://schools.guild-hall.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:45:28 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] fruit bat, WW2 and respect Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >I think it was about 2 years. >> Just read an article about the two (info >> given to author from J.C. Cabiero) stating Angel trained with Dizon for 20 >> years. How old was Manong Cabales when he arrived in the US then? >He was born in 1917. He left the RP in the late 1930s, maybe 1939. Kinda >hard for him to have trained with Dizon for 20 years. :) C'mon Ray, what's an extra zero between friends. :-> There's probably many on the list that get sick and tired of people like me disagreeing with many of the old masters oral history. In the long run I'm sure (to a certain extent) it's based on fact. At some stage most of us have played the game "Chinese Whispers" where a message gets transferred around a group and ends up totally different by the end, many of escrima's oral histories are probably the same. Treating these "histories" (in their entirety) with a little skepticism is not disrespect. >To make things even more confusing, our instructor is Visayan. And I seem >to remember wok-wok meant a fruit bat. Fruit bat in Visayan would be "Kabog sa prutas". "Wok-wok" in Visayan is a Witch. >Coincidentally, the other week, when stickfighting in the community room, a >WWII vet came and talked to me. Told me about how he killed the Japanese >with his bolo. Took me upstairs and showed me his sword and guns. I hope >he comes down next week and watch us train. Interesting the number of old Filipino vets that have similar stories. It's a historical fact that the Filipinos died in great numbers during WW2. During the Japanese invasion (late 41) over 100,000 Filipinos were already in, volunteered (or were conscripted) into the Americas Commonwealth Forces. Like the American forces they fought a brave (but disorganized) conventional fight against the advancing Japanese. A little known fact is that the Japanese force were vastly outnumbered by the American and Commonwealth forces. This stage of the fighting ended with MacArthur's escape to Australia, the fall of Corregidor, the Bataan death marches, and Army units able to escape the Jap advance heading up to the hills to fight a more unconventional Guerilla war in the mountains. From the fall of the Philippines to MacArthur's return resistance was limited to small unit Guerilla actions. The Japanese occupation was brutal, guerilla attacks on the Japanese occupying forces generally resulted in many civilians being murdered (sometimes whole villages) in retribution for Japanese deaths. Realistically, resistance was fairly limited during this time. After the US's reinvasion Guerilla units returned from the hills and many other Filipinos rose up against the occupying forces and again fought a fairly conventional war against the now retreating Japanese. My point being (I hate to sound skeptical again) Hand to hand combat without closure of distance with small arms would have been a rarity. A much more common occurrence would be a close quarters ambush supported with small arms and then finishing off the remainder including wounded with hand to hand. The number of hand to hand stories (particularly from old FMA'er) have to be treated with a bit of skepticism!!! It terms of Guerilla stories, here's a real one. A friend of mine who was only a child during the war relates the following. His father who was the local school teacher in a village in Leyte was made to raise the Japanese flag every morning. If he refused he would have been executed. The local Guerilla movement also told him that if he continued to raise the Japanese flag they would execute him. He continued to raise the flag, about a week later he was found dead in a ditch with his throat cut. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 21:48:29 -0500 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] CMA / FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >H >My introduction to FMA was many years after I started with Shaolin. > >The integration of the two is almost a study in opposites - the concrete CMA >compared with the abstract FMA. Interesting, I found FMAs to be a natural progression from Shaolin. Most of my background was Long Fist, but I "took" to FMA and S.E. Asian MAs like taking another step, no contradictions, seamless. Spoke with an Inosanto-accredited Silat/etc. teacher in Atlanta just yesterday who asserted the same, that the journey from various Chinese "Pais" to S.E. Asian MAs, including Kali and Silat, is (in his opinion) a natural progression. I guess it depends on the CMA system that provided the base. For example, some double broadsword movements are nearly identical to siniwali patterns (e.g., "Heaven 6"). Interesting comment on "concrete"ness ... one of my instructors said that he preferred CMAs to other "stuff" because it provided so much for the imagination to work with. One of the best in our school was a Filipino kid ... baddest broadsword in the house :-) __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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