Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 03:01:51 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #62 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Saavedras (Francisco j. Gomez) 2. Re: styles and such (Chad Getz) (Roan Grimm) 3. Shoulder pain (Marc Denny) 4. Tom Bisio (Philip Gelinas) 5. Lions, and Tigers, and Bears (Stovall, Craig) 6. Crafty Dog's yip about Panantukan (jay de leon) 7. Sayoc and Pekiti Tirsia (Afern27@aol.com) 8. Re: Lions, and Tigers, and Bears (Ray Terry) 9. Lua video (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Sayoc and Pekiti Tirsia (George Storm) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Francisco j. Gomez" To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:42:53 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Saavedras Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Stephen Lamade wrote: >"Mark Wiley tells this story about Saavedra's nephew, Doring Saavedra:" This book is written by several authors and this chapter was written by Krishna Godhania. You can also read this article in his website http://www.krishnagodhania.com _________________________________________________________________ Charla con tus amigos en línea mediante MSN Messenger: http://messenger.microsoft.com/es --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Roan Grimm" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:06:55 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: styles and such (Chad Getz) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Chad wrote : <<>> AND <<>> Hey everybody-- This was a topic of great concern to me when datu first certified me to teach. I asked him how he felt about me using his name, or should I call it something else because I wouldn't teach it exactly the way he taught it? His answer made me realize what a truly phenomenal man my instructor is. He said I could call it whatever I wanted to, use his name or not, as long as one principle was never lost...effectiveness. He told me to continue training and to continue learning, but to always keep the principle of effectiveness as key. I've kept him informed of where my training was going and what things I was modifying. I still hold him in my heart as my true introduction to the FMA and the single instructor I hold dearest to my heart. So when I would teach "Nitullama Silat", it was out of respect for my instructor and my way of paying homage to the man who most dramatically influenced my martial arts journey. Just another example of how Chad and I travel different paths that started out with the same tour guide. Interesting note (to me at least). When I was studying under datu, the first thing that really made me realize it was going to be a different martial arts experience was that he referred to himself as a "tour guide". His logic being that he was guiding me down a scenic path of the FMA, and not creating something novel, but instead showing me things that were already there. He insisted we never claim "discovering a new technique", but rather that we "uncovered something forgotten" or "uncovered a path not taken on this tour". This way, he kept foremost in our minds that something he didn't teach was most likely in use by others, either currently or had fallen from their repetoire. It definitely affected my mindset in appreciation for other systems and a continual desire to go out and learn from others. As my Dad has always said, "The day you stop learning is the day you might as well lie down and die." So because it slips my mind to easily, here's a very public thank you to all my instructors, which includes anyone I've ever trained with because EVERYONE has taught me something. If I've learned from you/trained with you, you taught me. And a very secial thanks to everyone on this forum for the open discussion of diffences and similarities, a veritable "marketplace of ideas"; thanks Ray for making it possible. Peace, respect and an open mind. Aloha, Kalani "The 30-year-old Intern" Grimm Firefly/MVNP "We must remember that one man is much the same as another and he is best who is trained in the severest school." --Thucydides "The will to win compares little with the will to prepare to win." --Coach Bear Bryant "Who dares wins." --British SAS -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:42:53 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Shoulder pain Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: <> >Acupuncture "cured" my elbow tendinitis completely when done by a professional...student acupuncture didn't help. Keep stretching; work both sides equally to prevent imbalances and get the book, "Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method For Stopping Chronic Pain" by Pete Egoscue, a physiologist. >Randall Sexton Just a quick yip to concur on both these points: 1) Many of us at Rigan Machado's school use Dr. Warren Tseng (Redondo Beach) whose accupunture and herbal work has cured an amazing variety of boo-boos that we normally would think of as having their origin muscular-skeletal issues. 2) The Egoscue Method is excellent stuff-- not at all run-of-the-mill, and well worth tracking down. yip, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Philip Gelinas" To: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:56:44 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Tom Bisio Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I was fortunate enough to first meet and then train with Tom Bisio in early 1981. We met at one of Tuhon Gaje's weekend retreats in upstate NY, in Oneonta. He was a stand out then and I can see no reason why that might have changed. We were able to see video footage of him winning the instructor's division of the first NARAPHIL Championships in Cebu. I was there in Big Spring, Texas when he met Vince Black who introduced him to Chinese internal arts and Hawaiian Kajukenbo. His group of students were always superbly trained and generally stood out in a crowd. He often sponsored a group to go to Cebu to Train with Filemon "Momoy" Canete. Three of my students were a part of one of those trips. I was smart enough to get him to come to Montreal several times over the next few years to conduct PTK seminars. He was the person who promoted me to Lakan Guro level in 1984. He left PTK in 1988 to pursue his interest in chinese medicine and to obtain a deeper understanding of the internal arts. I still hold him in extremely high regard and would welcome any opportunity to train with him. Philip Gelinas Mandala Tuhon / Pekiti Tirsia --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 24/07/2002 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:16:46 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Lions, and Tigers, and Bears Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray writes, <<>> Cool...any books out there on these guys? Also, was J.R. West in that division, or was that a different outfit? --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:15:06 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Crafty Dog's yip about Panantukan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Crafty Dog asks, "Can anyone shed light on 'suntukan" and versus 'panantukan'?" Here's my version. "Suntukan" is simply the vernacular or Tagalog word for fisticuffs or fighting with one's fists, usually in the context of a fight or combat and without gloves. Root word is "suntok" meaning to punch or hit with a closed fist. If one meant with boxing gloves, then it would be "boksing" (boxing). If one started to kick or grab and throw, then it would not be just "suntukan" any more. I never heard the term "panantukan" in the Philippines. I only became aware of the term here in the U.S., in relation to FMA It appears to be a derivative of the word "suntukan." But as a Tagalog, it would appear to me that the correct word should be "panuntukan" instead of "panantukan". But who said it was a Tagalog word, right? And it has now passed on to the realm of universal, Anglicized terms in Filipino martial arts, just like many other term. My understanding of "panantukan" is that it is the empty hands component of arnis, eskrima or kali (OK,OK whatever term you use for Filipino martial arts). It may therefore include open hand strikes, locks, throws, double taps, trapping hands, and many other empty hand techniques identified with FMA's. Again, given the numerous styles and permutations of the different FMA's, someone's "panantukan" may be different from another's "panantukan." Other systems, like mine, while including numerous FMA and non-FMA empty hand systems and techniques (including Western boxing), have no name for the empty hands component of their system. It is simply part of the total system. Which brings me to my own question. If an FMA practitioner switches or transitions from empty hand strikes to throws, has he now transitioned from "panantukan" to "dumog" or "bunuan?" or ? Or if he starts kicking, is he now practicing "sikaran" or "tadyakan" or ? Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Afern27@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:35:47 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Sayoc and Pekiti Tirsia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Going by the recent posts on this subject, would it be safe to say that Sayoc kali is an offshoot of PT? --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Lions, and Tigers, and Bears To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:51:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > << Capital Division. They had the highest kill ratio in 'Nam. Scary dudes. > Guys you -really- want on your side. Hapkido was their martial art of > choice. Very interesting knife techniques.>>> > > Cool...any books out there on these guys? Also, was J.R. West in that > division, or was that a different outfit? Yes, I believe Gm West was in country with the Tiger Division for 4.25 tours of duty. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:54:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Lua video Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Since we were chatting about Hawaiian Lua a few weeks ago I looked for a video on it. Found one; Hawaiian Lua, taught by Master Solomon Kaihewalu (see worldblackbelt.com/Founding_Members/Kaihewalu_Solomon.asp?SID=4063X8X6D0296VJ for a bio on Olohe Kaihewalu), www.risingsunproductions.net. One of those videos that is interesting to watch once, quickly, but that you can't really recommend. The slow motion demo is very slow and the normal speed demo is slow motion. It is advertised as "Approx. 55 min". It is exactly just under 33 mins. It is interesting to see some of the empty hand stuff, but nothing one probably hasn't seen previously in Kenpo or Kajukenbo. The use of some interesting and evil looking weapons is shown. Like the dagger, a wicked looking spear, a shark-tooth lined short paddle, a canoe paddle, a Y-shaped dagger, etc. Great family fun... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "George Storm" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sayoc and Pekiti Tirsia Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:03:43 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Going by the recent posts on this subject, would it be safe to say > that Sayoc kali is an offshoot of PT? > That is probably a fairly accurate description. Before it was Sayoc Kali it was called Pekiti-Tirsia Expanded. <><><><> George S. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest