Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:17:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #66 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Enough!!!! (lakanmdb@aol.com) 2. Kas-pin (Roland Isla) 3. Re: Re: What Bobbe Edmonds said...and Sayoc discussion (debergerac) 4. sticks (tkddragon Hodder) 5. 1% (Ray Terry) 6. Re: sticks (Ray Terry) 7. RE: 1% (Mike Casto) 8. Re: Rock'ys kiss-up (Q) 9. Bobbe's Quotes (Bobster) 10. Re: Rocky's post (Danny Anderson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:19:11 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Enough!!!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mabuhay In response to an entry earlier in the week I stated give credit where credit is due, in reguards to Pekititirsia and Grand Tuhon Gaje. I see now that it opened up a hornets nest. I never said anything about effectivness of any said methodology or system. But from the posts Ive read since this topic was raised in this forum and on the Sayoc.com forum are disheartening to say the least. I read on here that nobody should piss off a certain top instructor from the Sayoc sytem, I then went to his post in the Sayoc forum and I was shocked by what I read. It is truly a sad day when a quote such as "I hope some PT guy has evolved to the stage where he has a spine, has a problem with what i am saying. And wants to solve the problem with violence, because thats my favorite way to solve problems". Now maybe Im different but does that not seem a bit much. Why does healthy discussion or disagreement when conducted with non malice deserve such response. I was always under the impression that we as Filipino martial artists had a certain brotherhood abit of a non conformist way (which I did find refreshing). I apologize if my previous post pissed people off or rocked boats that was not my intent. I am also certain that Sayoc Kali is a great system, maybe in my over zealousnes and loyalty to Grand Tuhon Gaje and Maginoo Tim Waid I overstated myself and for this I do apologize. But to be honest with you and anyone who reads this, I dont think Ill be as open withn the FMA again, It seems just like all the rest of the mess. Mike B --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:06:11 +0800 From: Roland Isla To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kas-pin Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "does anyone have info on a "traditional" Finnish knife system called Kas-pin? Anyone seen it in action? " I'm not sure if that's the name of what I saw, but I had a very brief taste of it from a friend who grew up in Northern Ontario, Canada mining and lumber communities. His friends there, it seems, were all Finns who delighted in saunas and drinking. Then afterwards when they were all drunk, they would play their "knifefighting games." First of all, it is a game. The knives are razor sharp and they will try to cut you to the face, but it is a game amongst friends. The movements are all slashes, no piercing. The knife is held in the hand held to the rear of the body, while the body and head is shielded by the other arm which has been wrapped in your coat or other thick fabric. The aim is to control your opponents lead arm and lead him to an opening where you can slash to the face. They would then slash to first blood. It's rather common to go to these towns to find most of the men have faces covered in scars. At any rate it's an interesting study on how climate and culture can affect a fighting style. Norther Ontario is cold or at least cool for most of the year and people do wear jackets and coats. On the coldest days, drinking heavily allows you to remove your overcoat and use it to protect your arm and think that you're not too cold. The only times you ever see anyone wearing a coat here in the Philippines is in Baguio or some other mountain city. Otherwise it is just too hot and you won't have anything to wrap around your arm. Anyway, hardly a comprehensive report, but that's my 2 centavos. Sincerely, Roland Isla --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 06:23:18 -0800 (PST) From: debergerac To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: What Bobbe Edmonds said...and Sayoc discussion Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Who's KK?? Do you mean Khalid Khan? Anyways, I must admit both Sayoc Kali and AMOK have pretty cool websites and AMOK's site is not for the faint of heart...all the blood in the lettering. :-) I have met neither though I believe I can freely attest to the fact that they don't suck. One cannot be as intimate with the blade for that long and suck. So I can deduce that both these groups practice quality blade work. I have however, met a man who claims to be a lineage student of a Prof. Vinas and they both claim to be the parent art of Pekiti Tersia; that is to say Vinas Eskrima is claimed to be the Parent of Pekiti Tersia which is GM Gaje's style I believe. Anyone heard of Vinas? I have to say that I was a bit disappointed. Though they were OK in largo ( we were using foam chambara which we ALL can agree changes the dynamics of stick combat; though safer its slower and the "blades" stick together due to the frictive surface) I have to say that I gave as good as I got in that range using Olympic fencing techniques. They seemed quite unfamiliar with songkiti or estocada and frankly didn't know what to do when I lunged. Truth is I chased them all over their own dojo. We got into a little TKD/TSD too which was cool they had no fear of mixing it up a bit and had a hardcore attitude which was good. When I got close, into Serrada range, I have to say that I did well despite having spent the last 4 years riding a desk in Silicon Valley 12 hrs a day with little cardioconditioning. These guys are a father and son team who run a Tang Soo Do dojang and teach regularly. Incidentally their Tang Soo Do is Par Excellence. They also didn't do well when facing extreme tactics like blade grabbing. Frankly, I'd rather damage my hand and finish the opponent than let the fight go one iota longer but that seemed unfamiliar territory. Despite whatever good things or shortcomings I saw, I have to say that Vinas Eskrima is pretty decent, though is primarily a largo system. A person who is crafty and has good conditioning should have little difficulty. I was crafty and had little conditioning. Incidentally, I have been studying olympic style fencing to give me a better idea on estocadas. Particularly foil. Its also been great for my conditioning as i've dropped 20 lbs. Personally, I think that anyone who does close quarter blade work without seriously studying Cabales Serrada is missing out and has gaping holes in their knowledge. However, I will say that I wish there was more eskrima, any kind of eskrima besides me in the Desert Southwest. Arizona is bone dry in many ways...eskrima seems to be one of them. Anthony Park Guro, Cabales Serrada Eskrima PS: Anyone out there teach Jesus Cui's system of knife fighting? > -----Original Message----- > From: Chad Getz [mailto:stickshi@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003, 6:45 PM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Re: What Bobbe Edmonds said...and Sayoc discussion > > Bobbe Edmonds said: > > A whole bunch of stuff. And I agree, personally. What "original" art hasen't > been changed. Guarenteed that a fighter will change his style if he gets hit. > Well, I take that back, I'm not every fighter, just my own. > > > > Regarding the Sayoc discussion: > > Jut wanted to make disclaimer, that my original post says that I HEARD that > Sayoc and Amok were the "thing" when it came to knife. I have not had the > pleasure to train with T. Cris Sayoc or his group, YET. I have had the > pleasure to meet Professor Tom Sotis(A title given to him by GT Leo Gaje, > which he told me as soon as I called him Prof.) It was a pleasure to spar > with him and learn his method of presenting the material. As far as the > current discussion of Sayoc name, and what not, I have no interest and > withdraw myself from that part of the conversation. Call it what you may, > believe what you believe, and learn from what you study. Me, I'm more > interested in the effectiveness. And, I doubt that the Dog Brothers would be > bringing in knife training that was not along the lines of workeable. Again, > though, I haven't had the privledge, YET. Though I will. ;) > > I met Ron England from the Derobio school. He is a hell of a guy, and a man > that trained with GM Braulio Pedoy for a long time. Twas very interesting. > I'm noticing things in relation to KK and a certain other fighter on this > digest, and I'm wondering...I'll talk to Dogzilla about it. > > Keep Swinging, > > Chad W. Getz > > Stickfighting Hawaii > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "tkddragon Hodder" To: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:36:49 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] sticks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hey there Ray, A friend of mine wants to get a bunch of new sticks for his class and wondered if I knew of any good sources for that. They have tried the Century stuff and have more kindling than anything else, so if you or the list could help, it would be appreciated. Thanks, Rich Hodder --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:07:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] 1% Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > this I do apologize. But to be honest with you and anyone who reads this, I > dont think Ill be as open withn the FMA again, It seems just like all the > rest of the mess. Being open 'is a good thing'. Not something you should worry about. 99% of the folks are fine with it, and who really cares about the 1% that isn't. imho Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] sticks To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:09:04 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > A friend of mine wants to get a bunch of new sticks for his class and wondered > if I knew of any good sources for that. They have tried the Century stuff and > have more kindling than anything else, so if you or the list could help, it > would be appreciated. Lots of good places. eskrimador.com has some very nice close node rattan. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] 1% Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:14:08 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net << Being open 'is a good thing'. Not something you should worry about. 99% of the folks are fine with it, and who really cares about the 1% that isn't. imho >> Couldn't agree more, Ray. Mike --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:40:21 -0800 (GMT) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Rock'ys kiss-up Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <> Actually Rocky, all organizations have problems when the contact gets higher. It is not likely to be a Modern Arnis problem exclusively. Most real contact schools stay small because they just can't attract those willing to put a little more on the line. I remember in the old days our school classes would get big. Then the sparring would increase and then 1/3 of the class would drop. It would get big again and then sparring would get heavier and another 1/3 would go away. It is very rare that an organization like the Dog Brothers emphasize or have the reputation of hitting each other. For example, You don't do Dog Brothers unless you plan to get hit. It is quite amazing to me that they have an organization as big as they seem. Regards, C.H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:33:28 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Bobbe's Quotes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Bobbe, You end your posts with a some very cool quotes. What/Who are your sources? Best, Steve Kohn" Mas Steve, I have a file of quotes pertaining to combat & the mentality training martial arts. These are things from Roman Emperors, fameous generals, to Pak Victor DeThouars & GM Cacoy. Whenever I hear or read something that speaks to me in this manner, I add it to the file. Then I usually try to investigate the source, to see what this person was thinking of when he/she said it. There is a site on the web that has something on it called "Warrior Quotes" I've included the link below: http://www.seishinkan.com/battlegr/bgartcol/quotes.htm I also sent you the file with all my quotes on it. Enjoy! Hormat, Bobbe Edmonds "In training the master often makes valid attempts on your life. This is the truth of it: your opponents will try to kill you in earnest." --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:32:34 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Rocky's post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky, "And Tim is one of Remy's highest Rank, There may be more knowledgeable, but he is the rankiest ( if thats a word ). What might have been a good Ideal is if they would have capped Modern Arnis at 6th degree like one of the Karate organizations did after there instructor died." What is "the rankiest?"  Tim is one the highest of RP's students but he is by no means the highest or the first to be ranked at 6th Degree.  I was promoted to 6th in 1992 and Shishir Inocalla counter signed my certificate. As to the capping of Modern Arnis rankings at 6th Degree, Tim and I had a number of discussions about this when I was in Buffalo last year.  We agreed that it would serve no purpose to cut off everyone's progression up the belts because of the arbitrary of the founder's death.  How it is done is the key. Yours, Dan Anderson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest