Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:15:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #70 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Chemical Weapons (ABurrese@aol.com) 2. Re: RE: Your Favourite Self-defense Weapons (lakanmdb@aol.com) 3. Re: RE: Your Favourite Self-defense Weapons (lakanmdb@aol.com) 4. Re: Re: Sticks (lakanmdb@aol.com) 5. speed (gordon walker) 6. Re: RE: Your Favourite Self-defense Weapons (debergerac) 7. Favorite Martial Arts Weapons (Stephen Lamade) 8. Weapons I carry (Bobster) 9. David Eke's posting... (Bobster) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:16:47 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Chemical Weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For a good common sense article on chemical weapons and the terrorist threat: http://www.burrese.com/Self_defense/Self_Defense_Articles/Chemical_Weapons_Red_ Thomas.html Yours in Training, Alain --__--__-- Message: 2 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:17:44 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Your Favourite Self-defense Weapons To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mabuhay 1. The ones i leave at home ( seeing that I cant say my Kimber .45 or shotgun) then it is my Gnunting and several bolos, punals and off course my Tomohawk 2. Those i leave in the car, large tire tool, and I also have a tire thumper under the seat. 3. Im carry a Ken onion lock blade, also a gerber mini, and I carry a Boker lock blade as well, Not to mention a nice pair of steel toe Hi techs, and on Occasion I will carry my gerber mini tanto straight blade. Selamet/Mahalo Mike B. PTK SA Texas --__--__-- Message: 3 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:18:44 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Your Favourite Self-defense Weapons To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mike B. again and i have used the blade one time and the steel toes on a few unpleasant occasions. Take care --__--__-- Message: 4 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:20:59 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Sticks To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I usually get the raw rattaan from bambooand rattan.com and soak tthem and burn them myself. I paid 60 dollars and made 6 pairs . Mike B. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:12:06 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] speed Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Ginoong at Ginang, I was wondering if I could get some discussion happening on training drills and exercises to develop speed. Not only in the hands but with footwork, kicking, and general body movement relating to throws. I am now working on getting my bodyweight down and my strength up. I would like to supplement this strength with speed. In my experience, the ability to tag your opponent first is a much better attribute than the ability to bench press him. Sincerely, Gordon --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:29:12 -0800 (PST) From: debergerac To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Your Favourite Self-defense Weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is an example of definitional para/quasi logic Ray. Did you REALLY think a Mensan would let this slip ??? :-p) Yes 'Martial' can be easily defined as such, but the term in question is not 'martial' or 'arts' but the term 'martial arts'...in which case the exclusion of firearms typically applies due to the obvious... that firearms have not been even a minor pat of the history of martial arts which is typically confined to primitive weapons and various methods of hand to hand combat. For example, when you think of the term FMA and all the GM's out there teaching it...how often do you see them mention firearms? Historicity is a valid tool in arguing the definition of martial arts since often times one can make the argument that the USE of fire arms tended to make combat take place farther away and thusly a decline in the effectiveness and proliferation of budo(koryo)culture in favor of simply a mathematical exchange of bullets. Finally I do not think that firearms DESERVE to be a part of the term 'martial arts' due to the fact that it does not take much time at all to train someone to kill with a firearm. It takes a lifetime to make an Eskrimador, for example. Gong fu is a vector...time an energy dedicated over a length of time. Guns....just point and shoot. Now, incidentally target shooting competitions and speed drawing/shooting are a gongfu because you are using your hands and it takes time and dedication and there is a competitive format. But what a gangbanger does is not a gong fu(martial art). When a police officer takes seriously and spends everywaking hour studying various scenarios and trains them with live firearms then perhaps given the dedication over time, one can call that LOOSELY a gong fu. But in this sense the Chinese use gongfu to me a task that took time to master...like cooking. no one confuses calligraphy or cooking with gongfu(martial art) so no one should confuse the general usage of guns as a martial art...but rather a skill that is required for a task. What I see happening is people thinking that because guns require a modicum of skill to kill someone and killing, hurting and maiming are often involved...then it is a martial art. Actually the term "martial arts" comes from "wu gong(fu)" and the character has 2 radicals...one meaning fist, and one meaning 'stop'. Thusly "wu gong(fu)or 'martial arts' means the art of stopping violence. So in essence a professional speedshooter/target shooter can be said to have a gong fu or hand based skill. If he uses it to defend himself in a convenience store on the way from a match then he is said to have 'wugong' but only loosely and due to the fact he spent years perfecting his craft. And it is only in the instance of his defense can he be said to have had wugong. It is temporal. The average police ofc. cannot be said to have 'wu gong' because traditionally the Chinese and most of the Asian community from which martialdom springs agree that not enough time or effort is invested in getting a result of such magnitude as killing another human. Without time there is no appreciation or discipline for life and living...thusly there is no "art" in firearms per se. QED PS: if I had a favorite weapon it would be my mind...but so often I leave it at home....so I tend to use my surroundings and ground power as my ally. Now back to meditation. Please, the police officers on this list...don't be offended by the above. I was simply explaining the history of the term and why it doesn't include firearms. I am sure, and I sure hope, that all of you apply the same discipline to your firearms training as you do every other aspect. Just my 2 cents. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:28 PM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Your Favourite Self-defense Weapons > > > Out of curiosity, I would be very interested to know the self-defense > > weapons preffered by you guys (No guns here, we are talking about martial > > arts). > > Did you really think this 'firearms enthusiast' could let that one slip > by w/o a comment? > > Martial: inclined or disposed to war, warlike, brave; pertaining to or > appropriate for war; characteristic of or befitting a warrior; pertaining > to or connected with the army or navy. > > And guns are not related to martial arts??? :) > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:34:35 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Favorite Martial Arts Weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re. "Out of curiosity, I would be very interested to know the self-defense weapons preffered by you guys (No guns here, we are talking about martial arts" Sorry - I have to agree with Ray that guns should be included - particularly when you consider the training that it takes to be both responsible and proficient. However, I'll respect your requirements. There are also a variety of swords that I could mention, but I'll forego that as well. For every day self-defense I favor a 31" collapsable ASP lightweight baton and a neck knife. The baton for concealabilty and reach; the neck knife to have something in my other hand. Since these are illegal to carry where I live, I settle for a folder with a blade under 4" long. Since I've carried a pocket knife for as long as I can remember, I don't really consider it a self-defense weapon - it just is what it is. I've tried carrying a cane, but I feel like a damn fool using it and it always seems to get in the way. The best self-defense weapon is a sense of awareness. Best, Steve Lamade _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:44:29 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Weapons I carry Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Let us know the reason you've chosen the particular weapons and if you have used it in real confrontation." The ones I leave at home are swords, machetes, knives, Single-hand crossbow, sticks & a longbow. Nobody, yet, has tried to break into my house. If they do, what will happen to them will make Hannibal Lechter look like Mr. Rogers. I don't own a gun, although I am considering it. In the car & what I carry with me are usually the same: A knife with some kind of reach & shearing guard (Usually Cold Steel's master tanto, or the double-edged Tai Pan) a smaller blade (tactical folder or kerambit of some kind) and a projectile weapon of some sort (medium sized ball bearing, or a throwing star) Sound like overkill?? I live in Seattle. The crime rate here is higher than the unemployment rate, (Which is astoundingly high) and you haven't seen this much violence since Ike Turner lost the grammy. In downtown Seattle, good & bad neighborhoods blend and gradient casually into one another. You cannot take chances. My reasons for the various sizes of blade are: I like something with some reach on it, and a smaller knife for a rear guard, also for trapping & securing. Most thugs attack with a SINGLE knife, very few attack with two. There was a debate on this digest a month ago about the usefulness of a Kerambit, & I agree, as a single weapon it is extremely limited. However, as a secondary piece, supporting a longer ranged fighter, it truly excels. Also true for a Tac folder, held in Pakal grip (Icepick). In this fashion, it functions similarly to a Kerambit. I have had occasion to use them. Bobbe Edmonds "I dislike killing, however I dislike dying more. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid killing." --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:14:34 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] David Eke's posting... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net David Eke wrote: "Things have changed. Today, the simple reality (even on the list) is that you will not get a polite discussion on variations of style." Actually, I think it is possible to achieve, however, people tend to forget the pride others will have in thier particular style. Remember, if you are posting on a style different from your own, treat them with the same courtesy you would like to recieve. Look at the post before you send it, & change the wording around so it's from SOMEONE ELSE, addressed to YOU. Do you like how it sounds? Would you respond to such a post in the spirit of FMA brotherhood? Or would you be inclined to retort instead of reply, chest puffed out, both barrels blazing? This is a good guideline. "The fact is, there's too much at stake. Over the past 10 years the FMA has gone down the same track as other more conventional MA's. People are trying to make money out of things. Debunk the myths and bullshit of styles and people loose money." Ah, I HATE to admit the truth of this, and yet it is there. Copycats, outright frauds, & people using "A little bit of Kali" in thier Karate put us in a poor light. This gets worse when someone with one or two years of legitimate experience opens up an FMA school on his/her own. There is a danger in teaching too soon, as in, before you have any REAL knowledge. However, couldn't you say that the "Bullshit of styles" is really an opinion? I have trained in Villabrille Kali & Doce Pares Eskrima. (Others as well, but we'll focus on these two for now). Villabrille is in NO WAY similar to Doce Pares, except for two points: 1) They are both Filipino Arts. 2) They both use a stick. (And a knife, everybody sit back down ;)) This doesn't mean I think one art is bullshit & the other isn't. Just different points of view, i.e. Largo-Medio Vs. Corto Kadena. " Ray publishes all posts without fear or favor." Ray is the best, & this forum is fantastic. However, you probably don't realize that we kick him back $20.00 each month to take our side of things in debates. ...Just kidding! ;) Mr Eke, you brought up some great points, & I used your post to voice some of my own opinions. No offense was intended, just, as earlier stated, a different point of view. Bobbe Edmonds "I’ll fight ‘till from my bones my flesh be hacked. Give me my armor." –MacBeth Act V Scene III --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest