Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:54:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #80 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Suggestions for a Folding Knife & Favorite Weapons (Buz Grover) 2. Re: Muay Thai (debergerac) 3. Re: trip to cebu. (sam deGalicia) 4. Re: speed (debergerac) 5. Re: MILF murders 14, including 5 children (Philip Schrauwers) 6. Pekiti-Tirsia Knife Overview (bill m) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:22:42 -0500 From: Buz Grover Organization: George Mason University To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Suggestions for a Folding Knife & Favorite Weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Francis states: > I am looking for a new folding knife . . . if there is anyone that can help me decide on my next knife I would greatly > appreciate it. > Hmm, there are too many variables here for any one answer to work. I can think of several parameters, however, that can help you narrow things down. First, how much do you want to spend? I think folders break down into 3 broad categories: $10 to $40 folders, $40 to $100 folders, and $100+ folders. To my mind the first category is mostly knock offs and other junk; not something I'd like to trust my life to, but also not something I'd lose any sleep over if I had to toss it down a storm drain. The second category is where I'd suggest you concentrate your search. You can find just about anything imaginable in this category; the hard part is separating the flashy from the functional. Other parameters I'll mention later may help sort things out. There are a lot of really nice knives in the final category, and also a fair number meant to separate fools from their money. I'd suggest figuring out what works for you in the second category before dropping any cash on a blade from the third category. Second, what sort of blade shape do you like? I prefer a tanto, don't like drop points, and can live with a lot of blade shapes in between. My initial suggestion here would be that you try to find a folder similar to what you train with. With folders that's easier said than done: it's pretty hard to find a double edged dagger point folder, though the Applegate/Fairbain folder comes close. However, if you can find a blade shape similar to the one you train with I think it's generally a good idea, at least until you've played with a wide variety of knives and determined what works for you. Third, think about how you plan to carry your folder. Clips are a pretty popular carry method these days; if you plan to use a clip buy a cheap clip knife and make sure it works for you. There are a lot of considerations here. Clips that are on the blade end of a folder's handle, for instance, feel like they are in the way to me and mess up my fine control so I won't carry one. If you go for an appendix carry, a lot of folders with clips have square handle edges that dig in to the skin while driving, flying a chair at the office, and so on. If you decide to carry your folder loose in the pocket make sure it's lock and action won't be easily gummed up by pocket lint. A lot of stuff to sort through here; most of it you'll only figure out by trying various blades and carry methods. Though I'm sure there are plenty of other considerations, the final one I'll mention involves the folder's butt end. I prefer blades that have a butt end that offer some sort of striking surface: if you miss on the slash you can come back with a butt stroke. In a similar vein, if your art teaches palm stick skills you may want a folder that you can use in that manner. When it comes time to buy a folder, I'd suggest doing so through ebay. I usually decide what blade I want to buy, punch its name into an internet search engine and see what dealers are charging for it, and then search for it on ebay. If you are patient, you can usually find a pretty good deal from a reputable seller at well below list price. Before I close, wanted to mention that the favorite weapon thread makes me nervous. Guess I'm concerned that anything I cite now could be construed as premeditation down the road: "honest, your honor, I never thought about using a spark plug cable as a garrote before." Just about then the prosecutor would no doubt whip out an ED post wherein I'd mentioned just that. For some odd reason the thread also got me to thinking about this fellow I worked construction with back when my wife was in grad school. This gent was always picking up overtime and side jobs so that he could buy up acreage that adjoined his rural home. One time while we were all sitting around the lunch table someone asked why he was buying up all that land. "Want to own as far out as I can hit with my 30.06," was his reply. Don't have to worry about all that close quarters stuff if you plan to pick 'em off at 800 yards, I guess. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:00:30 -0800 (PST) From: debergerac To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Muay Thai Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't know if thats the case. I've found most thai bozers to have a staccato rhythm in their fighting and that their blows are generally more powerful. Having said that, they don't flow as well from technique to technique. They also tend to trade more techniques in fights where as most in eskrima try to close the fight down as fast as possible.. If you take your average K1 guy like Peter Aerts or Hoost or even a true thai boxer like Kru Vut or Chai, their rhythm is different than say a burton richardson or Paul vunak. Certainly different from most eskrimadors I know. Finally, yes you'll see front kicks, round kicks, elbows and so forth in kali/eskrima but there's a difference in intention. kali and eskrima generally tend to overwhelm their opponents with their speed and number of techniques along a flow continuum. Ever held a thai pad for chai?....damn near kneed me across the room. Once. These are things I've found GENERALLY to be the case and I think most can agree with this...doesn't mean we eskrimadors don't hit hard. I guess it boils down to the difference between witik and lobtik. We look for the snap and quickness and they look to bludgeon hard and as little as possible. Do both is what I say, but mix 'em up. Anthony Park Guro CSE > -----Original Message----- > From: gordon walker [mailto:chenstyle44@yahoo.ca] > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003, 4:22 PM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Muay Thai > > Puzzled also, > > Fma being more concepts based should cover a majority of "styles" of fighting. > The movements of any style, Ive found, show up naturally in the flow of a kali > workout. > > Gord > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 02:49:42 -0800 (PST) From: sam deGalicia Subject: Re: [Eskrima] trip to cebu. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Joseph, I just returned from the Philippines which included a visit to Cebu. I had no problems when I visited. I was there during the Sinulog festival. Unfortunately, I was unable to do any training. I agree with the other comments about visiting the Philippines. It is a fairly safe place to go except for the southern part of P.I. The only thing you may be wary of are pickpocketers and local scams... Happy trip if you decide to go. Sam. joseph de condappa wrote:I actually was planning to book a flight to Cebu today and do not want to overreact but what exactly is the situation in the Philippines with regard to risk and would it be expected to get worse should/when war breaks out in Iraq. It is hard to filter out from the media how serious, or not as the case may be, safety as an issue is. Regards, Joseph Makes me thankful that visayan eskrima is alive and well here...wouldn't want to go there and learn it...might have to forget about being pacifist for awhile if i did. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://messenger.msn.co.uk _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 04:44:34 -0800 (PST) From: debergerac To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] speed Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Relaxation beyond antagonistic muscle tension. What I mean is relax into a big puddle of goo. Now internally feel for any muscular tension. Dissolve by picturing thaat muscle dissolve. Next stage. Stretch. You CANNOT be fast until every muscle can be independently controlled of every other muscle and that muscles in contradictory positions(biceps/triceps or quads and hams) are not holding you back antagonistically. if you have tight hams you'll have slow front kicks, for ex. Next stage massage. For the hard to dissolve areas like neck and traps and forearms/hands a thorough massage is in order. If your email is any indication that you practice chen style then you are way ahead of the FMA curve. In terms of speed and efficiency I'd match Eric Luo(bagua) or any of the major Chens' against any FMA'ist in some double blind study on speed. Yours truly, Anthony Park Guro, CSE > -----Original Message----- > From: gordon walker [mailto:chenstyle44@yahoo.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 7:07 AM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] speed > > Dear Ginoong at Ginang, > > I was wondering if I could get some discussion happening on training drills > and exercises to develop speed. Not only in the hands but with footwork, > kicking, and general body movement relating to throws. > > I am now working on getting my bodyweight down and my strength up. I would > like to supplement this strength with speed. In my experience, the ability to > tag your opponent first is a much better attribute than the ability to bench > press him. > > Sincerely, > > Gordon > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Philip Schrauwers" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] MILF murders 14, including 5 children Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:36:21 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Joseph, I was recently in the Philippines, DEC- JAN. I went to Manila and Iloilo. Iloilo is on the island of Panay just NW of Cebu. Everything was fine and peaceful. I really had a good time. Enjoy yourself. regards, Philip > I actually was planning to book a flight to Cebu today and do not want to > overreact but what exactly is the situation in the Philippines with regard > to risk and would it be expected to get worse should/when war breaks out in > Iraq. It is hard to filter out from the media how serious, or not as the > case may be, safety as an issue is. > > Regards, > Joseph > > Makes me thankful that visayan eskrima is alive and well here...wouldn't > want to go there and learn it...might have to forget about being pacifist > for awhile if i did. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends > http://messenger.msn.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "bill m" To: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:09:19 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Pekiti-Tirsia Knife Overview Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray asked that I compare Pekiti-Tirsia and Sayoc knife work. I have only seen just a bit of Sayoc knife from viewing their website, so I really haven 't seen enough to make a good comparison (even though Chris, Mike and I trained together under Tuhon Gaje in the 70's, I didn't see any of the Sayoc system back then either. The Sayocs were extremely good at keeping their family system a secret and I didn't hear of its existence until the late 80' s. or early 90's). What I can do is outline how I teach Pekiti-Tirsia knife work. Perhaps someone who is familiar with both systems can then compare the two. You know that describing techniques on-line to someone not in your system can be difficult, so I'll confine myself to describing the structure of how I teach Pekiti-Tirsia (you can view mpeg video of some Pekiti knife techniques on the Pekiti-Tirsia International website's mpeg page at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/MPEG%20CLIPS.htm I don't know if all Pekiti-Tirsia instructors teach knife work in this way, but it is the way that makes the most sense to me. The structure closely follows the way I learned it from Tuhon Gaje. First, a bit of preamble is necessary. When speaking to new students, I go over some general legal principles on the use of deadly force. I tell my civilian students that they should only carry knives that are legal for the jurisdiction they are in. The knife is there to get you out of trouble, not get you in it. I also tell them to keep in mind something we have discussed here on the digest many times. On the face of it, a gun and a knife are both deadly weapons, but most people look at the two far differently. In most parts of the U.S., if you use a legally owned firearm to defend yourself against an armed attacker you stand a far better chance of being exonerated by a grand jury then if using a knife under the same circumstances. Train in FMA yes, but train knowing that you will be fighting an uphill legal battle after the street battle is over (and, as various digest members have pointed out, repeating the phrase "I rather be tried by twelve than carried by six", will be small comfort when serving 5 to 15 for manslaughter, sharing a cell with a guy named Mongo who wants to be your "special" friend). After putting a sufficient damper on the student's enthusiasm for knife fighting, I get right to technique. The first thing I teach in knife work is actually empty hand vs. knife. This is how Tuhon Gaje started my own training and, as I have gained experience as an instructor, I have come to see the logic of starting here. If you encounter a knife in combat, (at least in the States) it is likely that it you will not have your knife in your hands when first attacked. In addition, starting with hand vs. knife keeps the students focused on good fundamentals like footwork, timing, power and aggression. Without a tool in his hand for leverage, the student knows it's all on him to get the job done. I begin my students with knife tapping. This is a parrying and reaction time drill that I call the "mortar between the bricks" of hand vs. knife because it connects the intermediate and finishing techniques such as strikes, disarms, takedowns, etc. You might ask, why not start the training with finishing techniques? If you start a student with finishers, his tendency is to hunt for them exclusively in a fight. If his timing is off and he misses a finisher (and is not already proficient at a counteroffensive skill like knife tapping) he is then left wide open for a counterattack. I relate this analogy to my students as to why I teach parrying drills first: If I were teaching you how to fly a fighter jet, the first thing I would teach is defensive measures, i.e. how to hit the buttons for the release of chaff or the ejection seat. The first thing a person learns is the thing that will come out the quickest under stress. The old martial arts adage is true: it's your basics that come out first in a fight. If, while flying that jet, you spot a rocket coming at you and have only a millisecond to hit the button that will save your life, you want that reaction to be a quick, instinctive thing. To be that instinctive you must teach it first. (On a similar vein, I like to teach new empty hand students ways to avoid a sucker punch). You really don't want to do a parry in a street fight against an armed attacker; you want to do a finishing technique (just as you really don't want to hit your ejection seat in a dogfight, you want to fire your rockets). But if you do need to parry against an armed opponent, you will need to parry in a REAL hurry and won't have the time to think about it. Knife tapping comes in two flavors. Against hammer grip and against icepick grip. When used against hammer grip, you use the back of your wrist with your hand pulled back to engage your opponent's weapon arm in a hooking manner and against icepick grip you use your palm. The reason for these positions is that they help to keep the more delicate underside of your forearm from the line of attack should you receive a cut in hammergrip or get hooked when dealing with icepick grip. In both positions, you are actively driving your opponent's weapon arm away from its intended line of attack. Knife tapping is done with sidestepping and triangle footwork. I teach knife tapping softly at first, as a sensitivity drill to build the students reaction time and to help prevent mistakes due to over commitment. Later this technique is done forcefully with the idea of stunning your opponent's weapon arm. Knife tapping is a great reaction time drill. As soon as the student gets the basic movements down, you can add fakes and counters, which really randomize your attacks and helps to keep the student from being able to anticipate your moves. I teach techniques against hammer grip as basic hand vs. knife and techniques against ice pick grip as advanced hand vs. knife. Part of my reasoning is that you are more likely to encounter hammer grip in the street. The other reason being that knife tapping against hammer grip is more dependant on good footwork. One thing I learned from the way Tuhon Gaje taught us is that if you have a choice between an easy technique and a hard one, it is better to teach the harder technique first (again, under the theory that the first technique you learn will be the easier technique to bring out under stress). After knife tapping I teach strikes that the students can slip in between their parries. These are called "third hand" strikes in Pekiti-Tirsia. They are palm strikes, elbows, forearm hacks and eye jabs. Notice the lack of punches, which can lead to a broken hand and impair your ability to grab, disarm and lock. Next I teach counters to the armed opponent's third hand strikes and low kicks. It's only after the student has become proficient at parries and strikes that I teach what I call "goal" or finishing techniques; disarms, reversals, breaks, takedowns, etc. Returning to the fighter jet analogy: it is paradoxical, but I believe that the thing you want to do most, in the case of the fighter pilot, fire the rockets (or in our case, disable the opponent) is the thing that you learn to do last. Why? Because it is usually the finishing techniques that students have the easiest time learning (at least the "how" part, if not the "when") and are the techniques that require a bit more time to do in a fight (at least when compared to a parry or strike). These finishing techniques are chosen with the idea that you should also keep an eye on your opponent's free hand as his counter to your lock could include drawing a second knife. Therefore some techniques that work very well in a pure empty hand encounter are excluded from Pekiti-Tirsia hand vs. knife technique. It's not that they don't work; it's just that they present a danger in the environment of knife work. I emphasize when teaching finishers that they should be part of a three part package; the hit that buys you the time to do the finishing technique, the finisher itself, and a built-in escape move in case something goes wrong with the finishing techniq ue. Back in the 70's and 80's Tuhon Gaje would showcase knife tapping at our demos. It is an impressive drill; especially back when most martial artists were unfamiliar with FMA's. In those days we would demo knife tapping with a sharp blade, cutting a piece of paper before starting the drill. Knife tapping made such an impression on non-FMA martial artists that some of them at the time thought that it was all we did in hand vs. knife, but as you can see there is a whole lot more to PT hand vs. knife than just knife tapping. After hand vs. knife I teach knife vs. knife. My usual practice is to teach single knife first, using the following progression if the student plans on becoming an instructor. 1. Hammer grip vs. Hammer grip. 2. Icepick grip vs. Hammer grip. 3. Icepick vs. Icepick. If the student does not wish to teach (as in the case of many of my law enforcement students) I teach the grip that works best for the knife the student usually carries. I teach icepick grip for small knives under ten inches in overall length and hammer grip for larger knives with blades over seven inches in length. In the last few years I have begun my basic knife vs. knife classes with three sets of 12 targets for the knife; one set for a closed pocketknife (or palmstick), one set for hammergrip and one for ice pick grip. Kind of a knife Abcedario. With these sets I depart a bit from the way I learned Pekiti-Tirsia from Tuhon Gaje (he stayed with three attack angles with each grip for a long time, only showing other angles very late in training). I felt it would help the students to have a broad nomenclature of knife targets to begin knife vs. knife training, so I put together three sets of targets from techniques found here and there in the system. I begin the students with the palm stick set. I give the example of a way this set can be used as when going to their cars late at night. The student can keep a closed pocketknife in their dominant hand and their car keys in the other. They won't draw attention to themselves this way, but can still buy themselves some time with a palmstick strike if attacked before they have time to open the knife. After these three sets, I teach the knife vs. knife versions of knife tapping. Good timing is a major component of good knife technique, so I want the students proficient with their flow drills while holding a knife in their hands. In addition, some added hits and cuts are added here that are specific to knife vs. knife tapping. In basic hand vs. knife tapping, I teach defenses against four basic attacks from a knife held in hammer grip (wide forehand thrust, wide backhand thrust, low centerline thrust, high centerline thrust). In advanced hand vs. knife I teach defenses against icepick grip attacks from a forehand and backhand diagonal thrust, a vertical downward thrust, a horizontal jab and, (since the gross moments are related), defenses against hammergrip diagonal slashes. Into the mix of knife vs. knife tapping, I add the attacks from the three knife sets, to help cover a variety of angles not covered in hand vs. knife training (Why are these angles not covered earlier? I would rather a new student first concentrate on getting really good at just a few things rather than getting mediocre at many things). In both hand vs. knife and knife vs. knife, I feel it is important to start the students with large gross motions of the arms and simple footwork as their first line of defense. Fine motor skills go down as your stress levels go up, so you want the large motions to be the first thing a student goes for when in danger. After this segment, I teach drills and techniques that are specific to knife vs. knife. The drills go from counteroffensive and therefore difficult to learn, to directly offensive and therefore easy learn, under the fighter pilot theory of teaching I spoke of above. Each drill is centered around a set of three attacks that are countered and then recountered. Each drill works on a specific skill such as avoidance, locking or entering. After the base drill is learned, we delve into variations of that drill, working on different counters and recounters for each attack. After the variations are worked through, we practice moving from any one point in a drill to any point in any other drill. We are still working with specific techniques, but going from three variables, then to nine, then to eighteen, etc, is a very good intermediate step towards the randomness of combat. When teaching finishing techniques, I explain to my students that the phrase is a goal, not a guarantee. Human beings can be incredibly tough to put down, (especially with the 4-inch pocketknives most of my civilian students carry). You can have the same person use the same technique on ten different attackers and get ten different results depending on their physical and mental condition at the time. After the students get a sufficient vocabulary of technique under their belts to make it worthwhile, I get them into supervised sparring. Here we spend a lot of time working on jabs that will disable the weapon arm or stun the head since this is what will buy you the time to do the techniques you learned previously. Not too much time is spent on practicing the jab prior to sparring however. Just as in boxing, the jab buys you the techniques that you really wanted to use in the first place, and just like in boxing, sparring is the best place to learn when to use the jab. After the students become proficient at jabs and counters, we get into general sparing. I don't let them spend too much time in one on one sparing however. As soon as possible we get into sparring that involves multiple opponents, and/or unequal weapons. I want the students to develop a "street paranoia". A fight might start one on one but become two on one once the fighters go to ground grappling. A knife fight can turn into a gun fight when a second weapon is drawn. You might hear, "Police! Don't Move!" shouted from behind you just as you are about to finish your opponent. Make the wrong move and you get "shot". You might get "carjacked" while seated and have to fight through a "car window" made from bungee cord and pipe insulation. My goal in sparring is not to train them to fight a duel with a knife, but rather to train them to survive a criminal attack. After single knife, I teach double knife, most of which is based on translations from Espada y Daga. The icepick grip techniques for the dominant hand generally follow what the punyo part of the stick or sword would be doing in Espada y Daga. I teach double knife in the following order: 1. Double Hammer grip vs. Double Hammer (Using long thrusting daggers. Looks like it could be done well with a pair of main gauche. That may be where it was originally derived from) 2. Icepick and Hammer vs. Double Hammer (Derived from EYD set 1) 3. Icepick and Hammer vs. Same (Something I put together to fill a gap in the grip sequence) 4. Double Icepick vs. Double Hammer (Derived from EYD set 2) 5. Double Icepick vs. Same (Derived from EYD set 3) After double knife, I teach knife vs. empty hand technique. This involves counters to Pekiti-Tirsia and other hand vs. knife techniques (and something I reserve for my advanced students for obvious reasons). Do I teach any knife throwing? Very little, just a basic introduction. There are people out there who can teach it a lot better than I can. What I do show is more in the nature of judging what distance you can dodge a thrown knife and what distance you can't. The above material comprises all that I teach in Pekiti-Tirsia knife work. Lastly, I want to address the philosophy I try to impart while training. Knife work is inherently "dark" and it is all too easy for your students to go over to "The Dark Side" while training in it (I can hear Yoda's voice now, "Beware the Sharp Side of the Force. Seductive it is. Once you have started down the sharp and pointy path, forever it will hold you. Yeeeeeees." :-) While I want my students to take their training seriously (and the consequences of their actions VERY seriously), I don't want them to take themselves or even me too seriously. Here is the danger I am trying to avoid. What should be a defensive tactics class that simply focuses on one practical defensive tool, can easily be turned into "The Cult of the Knife." I work very hard to prevent my classes from turning into a cult, (and this does take work on my part). When teaching knife, it seems almost a natural inclination of some students (especially the younger males) to turn the class into a cult built around what bad asses they are because they train in knife (On the flip side of this, if an instructor actually wanted to turn a martial arts class into a cult, the knife class is the place to do it.). If it's the teacher's responsibility to look after the welfare of his students as it pertains to what he is teaching them, then that welfare includes not only their physical safety, but their legal and moral safety as well. You really have to be careful not to send your students out into the world with a hair trigger that can go off at the slightest insult or fender bender. To do so is just plan irresponsible on the instructor's part and is probably fueled by a desire for ego building (or wallet building) on the part of that instructor. So then, how do I prevent my knife classes from going over to "The Dark Side?" Humor is part of the equation. I joke about myself, I joke about the students and I even joke about the technique (have any of you guys seen my "rabbit trap" technique?) It's hard to turn into a serious cult if you don't take yourself too seriously. I get the students to laugh at themselves so they won't form themselves into a cult and I get them to laugh at me so they won't build a cult of personality around me or any other instructor. I use a lot of self-depreciating humor in my classes (not too difficult when you are among the "folliclely challenged" (:-) Another thing I emphasize is that they leave class in class. While I have the students address me as Tuhon in class, I tell them to call be Bill outside of class. I tell them that we are not an army or a tribe or a gang. I ask them not to wear their school shirts in public and keep their training very low profile. Above all I tell them that the martial art they train in is there to be their servant: to teach them self-defense, to keep them in good health and to protect their families. If they become the servant of the martial art then something very, very wrong has occurred. In fact one way I define a martial arts cult is when an instructor teaches that the students are there to serve the art, rather than that the art exists to serve the students. Well, I done my best to describe in writing something that really should be seen and felt. If you would like to see more, here is what I will do. I have a demo video that shows segments of technique from all parts of the Pekiti-Tirsia system including knife. I will wave the shipping charges for any digest member residing in the U.S. who orders this tape from me from now till the end of February. The price of the tape is only $20 and it is about two hours in length. Please mention that you are a member of Eskrima Digest when you order. You can find ordering info at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/forms/videos.html Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Email: tuhonbill@pekiti-tirsia.com PTI website: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest