Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:19:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #84 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: muay thai FMA link...and wrestling (Jesse Manibusan) 2. Re: Re: Self-defense Flashlight (GES) 3. kalintaw (sam deGalicia) 4. Re: new vs old Pekiti-Tirsia (Uli Weidle) 5. Thoughts for those who are in doubt about travelling to the Philippines. (Uli Weidle) 6. RE: Re: Self-defense Flashlight (Mike Casto) 7. Tom Furman - Karambit Question (Zach Whitson) 8. Re: Pekiti-Tirsia Knife Overview (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:46:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse Manibusan To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: muay thai FMA link...and wrestling Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Jesse wrote: > < difficult to merge Western Boxing with FMA as trying to > reconcile FMA with Muay Thai. Nothing I have ever done > is > even close to the movements found in Muay Thai although I > find that the boxing works very well with FMA empty-hand. > >> > > This statement is a total puzzle to me. I started in > western boxing and FMA and moved into Thai as the > neucleus. What did you find so difficult? I can't think > of anything that doesn't work? The thai elbows blend > nicely with the kali, The thai footwork blends great with > kali triangular footwork. Can you enlighten us? > > Truely puzzled Actually, almost everything worked. But the transition was difficult for me and it took time. Eventually I think I settled on an FMA base for fludity and weapons, with Muay Thai kicking, elbows and blocking, and Boxing for slipping and punching. FMA and Western Boxing blended nicely for me as far as the SLIP-AND-MOVE kind of fluidity. In both styles, I would only need to move out of the way enough to let a blow glance off my shoulder or let the strike narrowly miss its intended target so I can get close to the limb and hit it or grab it. However, in Muay Thai, I wasn't taught to be mobile or even get out of the way, I was taught to weather the opponents barrage and draw out a toe-to-toe exchange. I was taught to end the fight in a knock-out, not end the fight in a disarm, throw or arm lock. Another difference is that from a regular Muay Thai "Ready" stance, I was chambered to do anything: (a) block a rear round kick with my front shin, (b) block a front round kick with my rear shin, (c) destroy an incoming push kick with a downward elbow. I didn't switch a stance no matter what the opponent did because everything I was taught to do could be launched from one position. However, in Eskrima, I would move out of the way, grab a leg, change stance, etc. The point is I wouldn't just stand there. In FMA I was taught to use a multitude of stances and footwork techniques. In Muay Thai, I was taught to master only ONE stance: strong leg to rear, weak leg to front, weight on rear leg, front foot tapping the mat with my toe. I only rarely switched stances. I have seen many Eskrimadors who were very comfortable with switching stances and probably not even considering a strong and a weak leg. However, because of my grounding in Boxing and Muay Thai, I definitely preferred having my strong leg to the rear and didn't much like switch-stance drills. In Muay Thai, I never used strikes common in FMA, such as ridge-hand, palm heel, etc. Also, in FMA, I never once did a spinning elbow which is scary enough to do in the ring, much less on the street with a weapon in the air. Probably the major difference for me was that I found Muay Thai to be quite "HARD" whereas I found FMA to be "SOFT". I hope this doesn't get misinterpreted. I am not referring to intensity of strikes or effectiveness at all. I am not exactly sure what terms to use but the above will have to suffice while I think on it awhile. Upon re-reading my comments above, I realize that much of my experience may be due to my personal physical limitations and may not be typical of others. Perhaps our readership has had less trouble integrating the 3 styles. Now, to further open up the concept of integration, when I met up with my cousins whose expertise was strictly in wrestling, boy did I really get humbled. But after having been exposed to 3 other arts, I felt that adding some wrestling into the mix was very complimentary. I really liked the wrestling emphasis on balance and strength. I found their contact to be even more intense than boxing. Whereas I got hit a lot in boxing, all over my upper body, in wrestling....man, I felt like they hit everything on my body. And it wasn't punches, it was shoulder to chest, head to ribs, elbow on bicep, etc. I felt like I was in an Anaconda's grip all the time. The constant contact was tiring and always led me to try to disengage, rest and then find another opening. Unlike the wrestler who makes contact, holds onto to whatever they got on contact and then the fight evolves from there. Whew!!! I just came from my evening workout and typing this response has left me exhausted!!!! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "GES" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Self-defense Flashlight Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:49:58 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Which end of a flashlight would you hit with? GS ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:21 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Self-defense Flashlight > The C-cell sized MagLite's diameter is about the same as the average rattan > stick. It also has a very good weight to it. The 6 cell is a good length... > > http://www.maglite.com/ product.asp?psc=6CCELL > > > K. Williams > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:38:55 -0800 (PST) From: sam deGalicia To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] kalintaw Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Has anyone heard of an FMA called Kalintaw? Galo Lalic teaches this art in Angeles City, Pampanga. Would like to know more about it. Thanks, Sam. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:19:57 +0100 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Uli Weidle Subject: [Eskrima] Re: new vs old Pekiti-Tirsia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Regarding: New and Old A new and an old system of Pekiti-Tirsia? Grand Tuhon usually refers to some of the material that he teaches in the Philippines as the 'higher studies' and to the way he prefers teaching Pekiti-Tirsia now he refers to as "the functional approach" in contrast to the "Abecedario version" that he used sometime in the USA. Grand Tuhon wrote some articles about that and maybe we will republish some of them on our web-site. Anyway, if there is something in the 'new' (or was this the old) method which is not in the other, probably Grand Tuhon is the only person who can be really sure about it. Speaking from my own observations by training with Grand Tuhon and some of his students, that reflect different times of Pekiti-Tirsia teaching, I didn't find an old or new system but a gradual shift in the teaching focus. From combat to abecedario and drills and back to combat. All of the long time students of Grand Tuhon I met could fight as it is expected. Since first time I met Grand Tuhon til today the motto for Pekiti-Tirsia is: "Counterattack! No stances, no blocks!" And when asked about forms and drills, he often answers, "We don't program the student to mechanically respond to set patterns." The corner stones of Grand Tuhons teachings as I experienced it in Philippines and Europe are: Develop functional basics with body mechanics and footwork by distance sparring, target practise and power hitting. Apply the basics in bridging sparring, target sparring and full power blow by blow. In this progression of exercises the most important principle is the freedom of the student to express, test and prove his abilities in a safe space but with an always increasing amount of real danger, that keeps one alive and thinking. Of course everybody has the right to his own opinion, but this is what I experienced in my Pekiti-Tirsia training with Grand Tuhon. It is my understanding there is only one person Leo T. Gaje and since Grand Tuhon Gaje is Pekiti-Tirsia, there is only one Pekiti-Tirsia. Some students like to organise it as a collection of drills and techniques that can be written in a notebook and others prefer a functional structure, that comes alive in the dynamic movement of the fighter. But as Grand Tuhon says, the bottom line is: "Can you fight?" For those that want to experience intensive training with Grand Tuhon Gaje without the need to travel to Philippines. This might be interesting: Training camp in Germany May 31 - June 01 Weekend Workshop with Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje and June 02 - June 08: Intensive Training Camp with Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje in Germany, Reutlingen. For more info see: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.net/seminars.htm With regards from Germany, Uli Weidle --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:05:24 +0100 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Uli Weidle Subject: [Eskrima] Thoughts for those who are in doubt about travelling to the Philippines. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi friends, in the last decade I have been in Philippines at least twice, sometimes up to four times a year. Whenever I travel there I go there to be with my teacher Grand Tuhon Gaje, to live with him and learn from him and the other martial arts treasures of the Philippines, like Basco, Colimbo, Olavides to name just a few that I had the honour to meet. In the last years, I have been in the Philippines (Cebu, Iloilo, Bacolod, Ternate, Manila,…) more often and sure I can sense the change that is going on in the country because of international and national politics and other reasons. For sure Philippines is not Disneyland (nobody would claim that anyway), and when you go there it is always an experience. I met there true friends and people with so supportive and friendly hearts, that we from the western countries can learn how poor we became by becoming rich. And yes, even with all the little incidents and adventures I had (I’ve been shot at, threatened with knifes, there was a bomb blast at the Manila international airport area just at the time when my plan arrived there...) I plan my return for middle of the year because I am looking forward to meet my many friends and brothers in Martial Arts. And if the situation allows, by next year I will bring again a group of people interested in deepening their understanding of Filipino culture and martial arts. Of course everybody has to make his own mature decision whether to go there or not. But if you go to the right places and behave appropriately then you can have a wonderful experience with a beautiful country and a wonderful culture. Dangers are everywhere. Btw. I found this useful for those, who want to be up to date about newest developments in the Philippines: http://philippinesnews.net (yes, there is no www!) Regards from Germany, Uli --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: Self-defense Flashlight Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:27:53 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'd hit with whichever end I wasn't holding onto :-) Actually, I'd most often hit with the battery end (interesting pun, eh?) because I'd flash the light into their eyes to blind them, then strike from there. The exception would be flashlights with the switch in the base of the handle. With these, I would hit with the light end. Having said that, though, I've heard that in some places, legally, if you hit with the light side, you're striking with a flashlight, not a weapon. If you use the battery end, you're striking with a weapon, not a flashlight. So, legally (at least in some places) you may be better off hitting with the light end. Mike --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Zach Whitson" To: Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:51:28 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Tom Furman - Karambit Question Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tom, I custom make several models of the Karambit. If you have a version that you can't find off the shelf I would be happy to discuss making something to your specifications. For more info email me and I will send pics of karambit models that I have made. Thanks, Guro Zach Whitson email: zwhitson@preferred.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Pekiti-Tirsia Knife Overview To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:08:47 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Ray asked that I compare Pekiti-Tirsia and Sayoc knife work. I have only > seen just a bit of Sayoc knife from viewing their website, so I really haven > 't seen enough to make a good comparison (even though Chris, Mike and I > trained together under Tuhon Gaje in the 70's, ... ... > What I can do is outline how I teach Pekiti-Tirsia knife work. Perhaps > someone who is familiar with both systems can then compare the two. Tuhon Bill did a fine job of outlining P-T's knife. How about one of our Sayoc friends doing same so that we may see how they compare? Thanks! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest