Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:56:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #90 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Silat Groundwork (jonbroster@another.co.uk) 2. Chad.... (POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com) 3. Suro Jason/Guro Nate, and Kerambit (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. Balintawak, attacking blocks and Tom Furman or Meadows (rocky pasiwk) 5. RE: FMA in Atlanta (Coleman, Brent) 6. Inayan Eskrima (Ray Terry) 7. Herman's silat ground (Q) 8. details of PT and Sayoc (jim bruce) 9. Herman Suwanda's Ground Game (Stovall, Craig) 10. looking for an instructor (Handygd@aol.com) 11. Re: looking for an instructor (lakanmdb@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:20:10 +0000 (GMT) From: jonbroster@another.co.uk To: eskrima digest < eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Silat Groundwork Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi I read a lot of different stuff about the groundwork in Silat much of it seems to me to be speculation, rather than first hand knowledge. Tactics vary from style to style. The Sumatran styles seem to be much lower in general, but the ground work is based on the low postures and kicking, not on BJJ/judo/wrestling style grappling tactics. I have also been taught a lot of kuncian (locking) by Jak Othman whose system is Javanese. This stuff is equally applicable standing and on the ground. It is worth bearing in mind that a lot of styles have taken on board techniques and tactics from other style, especially judo; so that what is taught as Silat is not always Malay in origin. Just my 2p worth. Jon There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife! http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster -- Personalised email by http://another.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:10:32 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Chad.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 2/27/03 6:01:04 AM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > I've played with a Mande Muda Silat guy here in Hawaii, who had some nice > technique.  I'd be very inteerested in starting certain technical drills > from silat ground to standing with a mask and glove on while getting > punched.  The guy had a unique enough way to pique my interest, though I > still say he didn't have enough game without needing some structure from > BJJ or wrestling for position. > The guy used good silat fround work in 2 of his fights.  The other 3 faired > out differently. > Good to have you back. I too wrestle with the silat in real time equation. I like the "If you see it taught, you see it fought", method. I strongly feel, that standup, clinch, and ground mechanics are necessary for silat to be functional. The flavor and attitude of silat are what separates it. I am looking forward to your experiments. I have been bugging Tom Kier of Sayoc Kali and DeThouars Kuntao silat to be vocal in the application of real world application. His years on the wrestling mats and as a bouncer no doubt will give him different mental filtering mechanisms relative to street/ring silat. With respect, Tom Furman --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:10:39 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Suro Jason/Guro Nate, and Kerambit Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net First of all thank you Guro Nate, for the kind words that you post here. Guro Nate and I continues to shared knowledge to each other for almost 4 years already. As Suro Jason, two years ago is kind to visit me in my home in Pembrokes Pines, Florida and sit down and have dinner with me and my family, meaning my whole family. I hope he enjoy my Filipino cooking. This two gentelemen is example of a true meaning of brotherhood. If you get a chance to train with this two gentlemen take advantage while you can, true spirited Filipino Martial artist. As the "Kerambit" topic, I was not going to get involve on the topics, cause I have a little knowledge of how the Indonesian used them. But we have similar weapon in FMA especially in our town Paete, "Karit" (Sickle) used in the rice field bigger than kerambit, the (Pamuti) which is Kerambit in Indonesia are used in our town for picking the "Lansonez" a grapes looking fruits that our town well known for. Basically, the weapon are used only for slashing, and target is tendon/legaments, veins and the soft tissue parts of the body. The Indonesian kerambit the ring is in the end of the handle, the Filipino "Pamuti" (kerambit) the ring or whole is serves as the guard handle and sometimes is no ring at all. And the blade is razor sharp edge, similar to what they used in "Cockfighting" blade called in Laguna province "Tari" and "Bulang" in Visaya. This blade can open your belly like a surgical blade in one slahing motion, I have seen it in action, and seen a lot people died cause of it. Especially in "Sabungan" cockfighting arena when temper among bidder got out of hand, they used this blade to to stab and slashing attack to each other. I was cut this blades once, is seems and feel painful than the straight edge, dont get me wrong both cut is hurt, but seems like the kerambit, Tari, Pamuti is more painfull on my own experienced. Again, I though i need to add this to the "Kerambit" topics. Salamat/Thank you Gumagalang/with respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA equest@martialartsresource.net writes: > > Kudos to Suro Jason Inay and Gat Puno Abon Baet for > recently conducting successful seminars in Chicago > area. Suro Jason Inay covered some advanced concepts > in Inayan Eskrima, Serrada variations, lots of empty > hand applications, and also shared some concepts from > Master Jimmy Tacosa. Guro Abon did lots of "Buno" > locks, "moro-moro", & "Cinco Teros/Siete Colores" > drills. > Guro Abon also explained footwork patterns, > attack/defense drills and strategies in the Garimot > System of Arnis/Escrima. My honest opinion, the > Garimot System has one of the most unique concepts in > Largo Mano, Cinco Teros, timing & Blade/bolo Fighting > strategies. Not quite the same as Lastiko Largo Mano > or Pekiti-Tirsia Ranging and/or 5-Attacks, Fraile, > Tobosa/Villabrille's Ala Contra/Sagang Sagawas, or > Inayan Largo Mano. But I would defer to Guro Abon > and should be seen and felt in person in order to > understand. Text and video would do no justice to this > approach. > > Peace, > Nate Defensor > Filipino Kali-Eskrima Academy of Chicago > http://www.kalieskrima.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:16:16 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Balintawak, attacking blocks and Tom Furman or Meadows Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I just checked out a few of the more recent Balintawak sites ( man I got to get mine back up ) it's amazing how different everyone's memory is just 30 years ago. Yet one more reason I do not get involved in the historical B.S that is a weekly scenario on the digest. There are as many different versions of who is who in Balintawak from 1970 to present as there are GM's. If something as simple is this gets all Fu*ked up how and the hell am I to believe anything about where the arts came from, or what art came first 100's of years ago. It seems you are just better off saying yes my art that I teach or do is either Filipino or heavily influenced by the Filipino martial arts and just leave it at that. The older I get the more I realize that Martial arts is 25% skill 25% balls and 50% Bull Shit. I have said this before about the death match's that took place 40 or 50 years ago in the Philippines. Great Grand Master Bacon killed two people in his life time ( confirmed ) both in self defense, and he went to jail for both!!!! That's right jail, Gm Buot use to take him cigarettes and stuff. The sentence was only 6 months but nonetheless he went to jail. If I were Filipino I would be a little pissed about all these Eskrimadors who talk about how many people they killed in the last 40 or 60 years, it makes the Philippines seem like a totally ruthless, lawless, country full of un educated savages. Now I know that there are areas that are much more harsh and not nearly as modern as Cebu or Manila was 50 years ago, but I still find it hard to believe you could just wonder around and fight people to the death with no repercussions, just 30 to 60 years ago, even if the repercussions came just from the local villagers. Mr. Getz wrote about attacking blocks. Chad, not to be a smart ass but I didn't know there was really any other kind of block, since 1975 I was always taught that a block was an attack, if it wasn't it was purely defensive, and if one is purely defensive, you allow your opponent to dictate the tempo and allow him to repeatedly attack, thus producing what I refer to as the machine gun effect, you let a guy throw enough rattan at you some thing is going to get thru!!!! Tom Furman, I believe you wrote me a few years back about classic cars, or it could be Tom Meadows?? Well any ways which ever one it is I am looking for a 60's to 70s convertible VW email me if you have any info. Or anyone else for that matter. Thanks Rocky Pasiwk --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Coleman, Brent" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] FMA in Atlanta Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:30:31 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve, I train at the Francis Fong Academy, Benjamin used to come by and work out with our Kali and BJJ classes occasionally but I haven't seen him for several months, as far as I know he is still in the Atlanta area. I did a search and found the following link for FFMA schools in Atlanta, http://www.atlantamartialarts.com/country/phil.htm I am pretty sure that the Atlanta Kali Group listed here Benjamin's group. In addition than these, Guro Bruce Jolly (also a Sifu Francis Fong protégé) teaches out of his home in Snellville. Good training, Brent -----Original Message----- From: Steve VanHarn [mailto:svanharn@shorelinecontainer.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:15 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Atlanta <<>> Benjamen Salas used to teach Doce Pares, I believe, in that area as recently as last year but I'm not sure if he is still located there. FWIW Steve Van Harn Arnis Sikaran - Jornales System _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:33:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Inayan Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > .... Suro Jason Inay covered some advanced concepts > in Inayan Eskrima, Serrada variations, lots of empty > hand applications, and also shared some concepts from > Master Jimmy Tacosa. Then you might also enjoy bringing in some of Jason's instructors in Inayan Eskrima, e.g. Steve Klement and Emanuel Hart. Two of the best Inayan's currently out there... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:37:42 -0800 (GMT) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Herman's silat ground Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <> Mike, That may have been us. I posted on this issue some years ago. We did this when we were actively trying to find ways to defeat specific BJJ issues. Everyone was doing BJJ so we spent more time with Gotch submission wrestling/shooto and anything else we could find including working more weapons end on the ground. inda like Crafty Dogs statement of "stickgrappling happens". Anyone who knew Herman knows how he is able to do things others just can't do. He has tried to teach us many things which we failed miserably at. We used to go drinking with him on occasion and were very friendly. I do not think he was holding anything back from us. We just did not get it. He was amazingly skilled. I fear that 90% of Munde Muda died with him. He had very unusual unorthodox ground escapes that worked. He was not "tight" but more of like the "spider" than the python that was mentioned in an earlier post of silat ground work. Personally I do not think of even Harimau as really ground while it is defined as such. The arts that stick to you are more ground to me. But that is my opinion. If anything I think of harimau as an intermediate range between throw to ground. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: jim bruce To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] details of PT and Sayoc Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sayoc's "GuroJeff" enjoys spaming individuals with his e-mails. Maybe he would send in a comparison of PT and Sayoc knife? ===== JAB __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:23:13 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Herman Suwanda's Ground Game Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mike wrote, <<>> That's probably the second or third time I've heard a similar story about Herman Suwanda. Anyone here with firsthand knowledge of his ground game? I've heard stories of him rolling with BJJ/Shootwrestling types, and doing very well...escaping holds and positions, and even effecting his own submissions, etc. I think this is interesting. Did anybody here get a chance to roll with him or see what his game looked like? How did it compare/contrast with the BJJ/Wrestling structures? --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Handygd@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:50:48 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] looking for an instructor Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi I'm looking for an instructor in the FMA. I live in Orangevale, CA. orangevale is in the sacramento area near folsom.My experience in MA is 6 years in Bok Fu Pai and about 8 mos. With Inasanto blend kali/muay thai. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks Greg Doucette --__--__-- Message: 11 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:32:54 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] looking for an instructor To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greg here is a Doce pares school in Sacramento, www.docepares.net and also www.bahalana .com they also have schools there. Good luck in your search Mike B. PTK SATX --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest