Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 03:01:48 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #91 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Herman's silat ground (debergerac) 2. Re: attacking blocks (Chad Getz) 3. Herman Suwanda (Musilat@aol.com) 4. Re: Herman Suwanda (LOUIE LINDO) 5. Sacramento/Orangevale FMA (Brian Long) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:03:32 -0800 (PST) From: debergerac To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Herman's silat ground Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I note the difference between the different types of "ground" one being the wrestling/mma that we currently see and Hernan's ground game which to me is much more elusive and akin to qin na. I have no doubt he had little difficulty with a group of today's fighters. They have constraints on them like cages and rings where as hernan had no such concept so on an open mat certain types of standard submission moves don't work as well. Hernan's Harimau was truly worthy of the name Tiger, elusive and aggressive and I agree, despite my greatest respect towards Rita Suwanda, that his harimau died with him. When Leo Giron died I was "out of it", he was an eskrimador truly worthy of the word. You couldn't pay me to take a bolo against a katana, even if it were a cheap Jap war one. He had a way of taking the angle that was sublime. I'm glad GM Tony Somera and Leo's sons are still around to teach the full art. When I heard Pa Hernan fell, so to speak, along with his family in Germany the wind got knocked out of me. I had tried to reach the ofc in San Francisco for some time but there was no answer. He had done so much by setting up that "university' and allowing poor people to train with scholarships as I had read in articles about him. I just hope that his students and GM Rita can get together along with whoever else knew what he knew and reconstruct what we as a society lost when he died. He was a giant tree and many were privileged to be branches; I hope some take root and that Mande Muda is not lost. Truly, Anthony Park Guro, CSE > -----Original Message----- > From: Q [mailto:docfung@earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:48 AM > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Herman's silat ground > > < groundfighters (with some very skilled groundfighters among them). He had > each of them come up and put him in any submission they chose. He'd let > them > get the submission on. When they said they were ready, he would counter > and > submit them in the blink of an eye :-) The Mande Muda ground work was very > complete for Pak Herman. Of course, each practitioner will have varying > degrees of skill/ability in any the art.>> > > Mike, > > That may have been us. I posted on this issue some years ago. We did this > when we were actively trying to find ways to defeat specific BJJ issues. > Everyone was doing BJJ so we spent more time with Gotch submission > wrestling/shooto and anything else we could find including working more > weapons end on the ground. inda like Crafty Dogs statement of "stickgrappling > happens". Anyone who knew Herman knows how he is able to do things others > just can't do. He has tried to teach us many things which we failed miserably > at. We used to go drinking with him on occasion and were very friendly. I do > not think he was holding anything back from us. We just did not get it. He > was amazingly skilled. I fear that 90% of Munde Muda died with him. He had > very unusual unorthodox ground escapes that worked. He was not "tight" but > more of like the "spider" than the python that was mentioned in an earlier > post of silat ground work. Personally I do not think of even Harimau as > really ground while it is defined as such. The arts that stick to you are > more ground to me. But that is my opinion. If anything I think of harimau as > an intermediate range between throw to ground. > > Regards, > > Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. > Torrance, Ca. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:40:47 -0800 (PST) From: Chad Getz To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: attacking blocks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Rocky wrote: >>Mr. Getz wrote about attacking blocks. >>Chad, not to be a smart ass but I didn't know there was really any other >>kind of block, since 1975 I was always taught that a block was an attack, if >>it wasn't it was purely defensive, and if one is purely defensive, you allow >>your opponent to dictate the tempo and allow him to repeatedly attack, thus >>producing what I refer to as the machine gun effect, you let a guy throw >>enough rattan at you some thing is going to get thru!!!! `75? Sorry, dude, I wasn't even born. Actually, Rocky, the way I percieved the term Attacking Block was to be as an avenue to train closing the gap. Moving from the long range into the close range or clinch behind an attacking block or actually an attacking "deflect, hold, strike" while running in to crash through the ranges. We used common "techniques" that we learned like inside deflection/eagle wing(roof) against an angle 1 or outside deflection/or palis palis against an angle 2, etc. Then we'd spar long range only, and try to close behind the techniques against full power strikes using a mask(just in case). My instructor was very adamant about using "deflections" and not blocks, but we are 2 different people with two different perspectives, so I just categorize it all under the same word "block", just to get across the concept of where the sticks belong, and individuals can work the "technical" differences if they wish. Maybe a more suitable term be closing attacking blocks. Again, my perception is just a bastardization of the original idea. I'm only expanding on what I saw on a tape and what I've heard Crafty explain, so I may be off point to the whole 'intended' goal of the AB, but it intented goal may have been reached anyhow, since it did inspire something in our training that has produced better results in my weekly stickfight expeditions. I noticed after working a version of my perception of a back and forth striking drill in which attacking blocks were somewhat utilized, that I began to pull off cleaner "technique" in my fights that gave me more confidence to play with the range and my timing. Crafty, I worked with Dogzilla Friday night with the sticks, so I'm not sure how close or far I am along the ideas. He let me watch the tape Friday night after we worked out. Respectfully, ~Mr. Getz ;) Regarding the silat and Herman being more of a spider than a snake, the guy that I'm talking about had that spider leg-like quality as well. My impression is that the silat groundfighting is similar in thought to attacking no matter what position you are in, which I hear is something that Frank Shamrock advises or trains. Not sure of that though, but it sounds like a good game to have along with the position game, the ability to attack from any position is something not often trained enough. Then again, there are only so many hours in the day and days in the week, huh. I'm trying to win my lottery and get into MA full-time after that. ~Chad Hawaii --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:20:31 -0500 From: Musilat@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Herman Suwanda Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, While my exposure to Herman Suwanda was limited to only 2 seminars and one 90 minute class, he was easily one of the most amazing martial artists I've ever seen as well as being a really nice, funny guy. No posturing at all. I tend to agree with Carlton Fung's post in which he "feared that 90% of Mande Muda died with Herman." I saw that guy do things that I haven't seen anyone even approach. His hands were like legs and vice versa. When he did his demos, you got the impression that even the strangest of energies wouldn't foul him up. Like anyone who is great at what they do, he always knew where he was at all times. I hate using the word master for anyone, but he truly deserved the title. I wish I could have had the good fortune to have studied with him more extensively. Best to all, Steve Kohn Torrance, CA --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "LOUIE LINDO" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Herman Suwanda Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:28:54 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Steve, Thanks for your comment on the late Herman Suwanda. I had the opportunity to study under him from 1987-1990 in his home in Venice, California before he publicly promoted his art. Yes, his legs can move like his hands. Regards, Louie D. Lindo Vancouver, Canada >From: Musilat@aol.com >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Herman Suwanda >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:20:31 -0500 > >Hi All, > >While my exposure to Herman Suwanda was limited to only 2 seminars and one >90 minute class, he was easily one of the most amazing martial artists I've >ever seen as well as being a really nice, funny guy. No posturing at all. I >tend to agree with Carlton Fung's post in which he "feared that 90% of >Mande Muda died with Herman." I saw that guy do things that I haven't seen >anyone even approach. His hands were like legs and vice versa. When he did >his demos, you got the impression that even the strangest of energies >wouldn't foul him up. Like anyone who is great at what they do, he always >knew where he was at all times. I hate using the word master for anyone, >but he truly deserved the title. > >I wish I could have had the good fortune to have studied with him more >extensively. > > >Best to all, > >Steve Kohn >Torrance, CA >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:34:02 -0800 From: Brian Long To: Subject: [Eskrima] Sacramento/Orangevale FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greg, The W.O.R. School in Sacramento, CA teaches various styles of FMA. Check out www.kabaroan.com for more info. Brian Long W.O.R. Estalilla Kabaroan Eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest