Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #95 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Guy Chase (Jeff Monaghan) 2. Cabales Serrada Eskrima/Bagua (debergerac) 3. Balintawak GIF at www.docepares.net (M McKenzie) 4. Re: Herman's silat ground (Ron Balicki) 5. Inayan Eskrima Training Camp (Steve Klement) 6. copyright (David Eke) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jeff Monaghan" To: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 23:53:05 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Guy Chase Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tom, I was a student of Guy Chase's when he lived in the SF Bay area. He was one of the first five original certified instructors under Pak Herman in Mande Muda. He is also a long time private student of Karl Gotch before submission was popular. He always taught the arts separately, but he would have an overall teaching approach. We would work on learning to apply locks in different positions or moving from position to position, (Gotch was big on being able to move around the body while applying locks wherever you happened to be at). Then during Mande Muda we would work entries into similar positions and apply locks from Mande Muda. But as far as I remember, Guy was big on teaching the fundamentals of each art separately. But you could tell the similarities between the lock, etc. It was more of a style difference. I lost contact with him after he moved to Boston. Jeff Monaghan >>>> Doc Fung has mentioned Gotch Submission and Mande Muda together. Guy Chase also has these two arts listed in his resume. What is the fusion of this stuff looking like?? Does anyone keep up with Guy Chase to see what this hybrid from looks like? Just watching Tony Cecchine move on tape reminds one of the tight angulation of the Mande Muda locking with real damaging, and hard to train, motions. Tom Furman <<<<< --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 00:07:11 -0800 (PST) From: debergerac To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Cabales Serrada Eskrima/Bagua Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net One of the greatest pleasures in my life was to train in and become a teacher of what I consider to be the ultimate in self defense...Eskrima. My personal brand would be Cabales Serrada. I was fortunate enough to train with GM Vincent Cabales, Guro Stanley Wells, Guro Khan, Guro Gary Bowlds from Inayan/Serrada and several others who would have got their Masters diploma from GM Angel himself if he had that system in place. I am so fortunate in that I had as many flavors of Serrada as I did. To my sadness there really is NO eskrima in the Desert Southwest. I would like to start a backyard class in teaching the full curriculum of Serrada here in Arizona. If there are any of you currently living in Arizona on that list please contact me via email off the list. Fraternity is one of the greatest assets of an eskrimador. I think I feel safe in saying on this list that if any of us were stranded anywhere in the US all they'd have to do is find eskrima and they'd get the help they need. In Arizona, it would seem that there is only my house. :-) I am interested in students who TRULY wish to learn the art; if you can pay, pay. If you can't then all I ask is that you come and join the fun and help build up your skills. I teach Fridays from 6-midnite and Sundays from noon until you can't stand it anymore. :-) Finally, there has been an ongoing thread about the Phillipines and dangers in traveling there. One of the reasons eskrima is such powerful combat system is that it is jungle combat. The phillipines has been the forge of great fighters for centuries. Of course there are dangerous areas. But then again there is Palawan, a tourist center for the rich. The pilipinos should never feel they have to defend against negative perceptions of their country. Personally, I feel proud that someone of that heritage shared their knowledge with me. Mabuhay ang Cabales Serrada Eskrima. Anthony Park Guro, CSE PS: Ray, I know this was a bit of a plug for Serrada. i hope you'll excuse it and let it through. I don't have the finances to do much more than promote it via lists like this. Thanks. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "M McKenzie" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Balintawak GIF at www.docepares.net Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 07:34:56 -0800 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank very much for letting us know,the gif was taken down . Sorry for the misunderstanding. -Mike --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Ron Balicki" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Herman's silat ground Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 17:01:20 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Andrew, Here is one counter that Pak Herman did to me: While wrestling with Pak Herman I got him into a straight arm bar. I didn't get both legs over just the one over the face. Most systems like BJJ prefer having both over the face and body. In Shoot Wrestling it doesn't matter to us both or one. Anyway, I was starting to lift my hip trying to put the lock all the way on. Pak Herman shot his knees up to his chest and loop his closest leg on top and around my leg that was bent and tight by his arm pit (I hope this makes sense). He pulled my leg down with his leg which dissolved the lock. He got a hold of my leg that was across his face, slide up on it and leg barred me. Pak Herman had an amazing attitude. He had no ego when it came to acknowledging other martial arts systems for their merit. There were times he and I wrestled and if I got him he would just laugh and say "Oh, that was pretty good! Lets go again!" He wasn't scared to put his system on the line and field test it. He didn't rely on theory and nose snubbing to pronounce his system the best. That is one of the many reasons why I respected him so much. Thanks Ron Balicki >Message: 4 >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:08:11 -0600 >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Herman's silat ground >From: Andrew R Breton >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >Hi everyone, > >I don't want this topic to die out just yet. So far, I've heard a number >of people say "yeah, I rolled with him too and he got out of my locks". >What would really be interesting is some examples along the lines of >"when I had him in this hold, he moved this part of his body here as he >was putting pressure on here." Email privately if you'd like. > >I can certainly smpathize with Dr. Fung's being drunk when they rolled. >When I first encountered Pak Herman, it was so much information (though I >wasn't drunk, my brain was fried). You know how encyclopedias have >experts that write certain entries? He was an encyclopedia all by >himself. People like Doc Dority and Kelly Smith in Texas were able to >absorb a lot of that encyclopedic knowledge. (I don't know the >California people, except Guru I and Tony Somera). > >I think Dr. Fung left out that many (18, I think) of the styles were put >together into a whole by Herman's father. Herman himself added a number >of styles that he picked up. All the styles Doc mentioned have thier own >history that pre-dates Pak's father. So there is a lineage there. >Benjang (sp?) may be the style that people were trying to think of that >is more wrestling-like than some of the other styles. As people have >stated, Ibu Rita heads up the system now. > >A note about the Hanafi silat as expressed on Guru Richard's tape. The >Paladin tape does not really do the art justice. Guru Richard had a >shoulder injury the weekend of taping, and that's why you don't see him >much in the tape. (The tapes from England from his web site are alot >better, but you don't have as professional a production). He's also of >the old school where you don't show the public everything you know. What >was shown was mostly Kuda Kuda (moving from one stance to another). >That's because that's what a student does for the first years he or she >is training. The applications shown were the fundamental level. Believe >me, there's a lot more. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:14:14 -0500 From: Steve Klement To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Inayan Eskrima Training Camp Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net -- 3rd Annual Inayan Systems International Training Camp -- Classes will be taught on all the core Inayan Styles including but not limited to: Inayan Serrada, Inayan Kadena de Mano, Inayan Largo Mano. All seven ISI Guros will be in attendance. The Instructors are as follows: Masirib Guro Emanuel Hart Masirib Guro Jeffrey Elliott Masirib Guro Steve Klement Masirib Guro Cory Hanosh Guro Jon Ward Guro Mike Klement Katalungan Guro Brad Hill Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Date: First weekend of May, 2003 (Thursday the 1st - Sunday the 4th) Details on this great event can be found by visiting our website at: http://www.inayaneskrima.com Thanks and hope to see some new faces again this year... -- Steve Klement Inayan Masirib Guro www.inayaneskrima.com klement@inayaneskrima.com Inayan Systems International --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:46:58 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] copyright Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >HI Everyone, >I been lurking for a while here and have learned a lot from this digest. I >felt it's time to make contribution. >While surfing, I visited http://www.docepares.net/Gallery0.html. It struck >my attention when I saw the black and while GIF animation right next to the >text where GrandMaster Diony Canete is introduce. The file is called >docespar.gif >BUT, that same animation was first seen by me more than 1 year ago at >http:\\www.visayanmartialarts.com. >People familiar with Balintawak will recognize it as Balintawak. >People familiar with Doce Pares will recognize it as NOT Doce Pares. >Maybe not? >I don't think it got there by mistake. Is this a form of Stealing? >copying? imitation? Interesting the animation was removed from the Doce Pares site very quickly after this post. Yes, the animation belongs to Visayan Martial Arts, I recognize the two participants (John Russell & Henry Jayme), I've even seen the video it comes from. The actual animation is Velez style "At random" and I'm sure it took quite a while to transfer it from video to a gif. Is it stealing, the simple answer is YES. Interesting side point is that John has trained with "Cacoy" and knows "Diony" also. At a guess he probably wouldn't care, however, it is important to give credit where credit is due and renaming a gif animation is a bit rude. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest