Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:25:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #115 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dumog (gordon walker) 2. Re: Drinking Sweat (Leo Daher) 3. Re: Eskrima stick drills (Ray Terry) 4. Differences (Rodriguez John) 5. Crafty and GP Abon's Buno (jay de leon) 6. What we call it... (Bobster) 7. ILUSTRISIMO edged-weapon seminar (LOUIE LINDO) 8. Re: What we call it... (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:32:28 -0500 (EST) From: gordon walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Dumog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Olisi Garote eskrimador, I am currently training with Punong Guro Dan Rutano. In my limited experience with the Filipino martial arts, he is the real deal in terms of skill and efficiency in empty hand and weapons based combatives. His family style of Haribon Dumog is an all emcompassing grappling art, which has applications from takedowns to throws to groundfighting. It is a system which has its base in the weapons arts but has no separation in terms of ranges and tools. Mr Rutano is from Aklan in the Visayas and that is where he received his initial education in Dumog. I have only my own viewpoint to share and dont consider myself an expert. I only know that I strongly believe in what I am studying. I dont wish to inspire any controversy, or negative feelings. I just wish to be inspired, informed and educated. Check out the website at http://www.members.shaw.ca/estokada/aboutus.html Gorrrrrd --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Leo Daher" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Drinking Sweat Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 02:32:17 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Excellent post, Guro Crafty. "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima stick drills To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:44:58 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hello, I have recently gained intreast in this martial art. I was > wondering if anyone would be able to explain a few stick fighting drills > for me. Good question, and this is the best place to ask... There are a variety of stick fighting drills, I'll attempt to describe only two. Others can add their own contributions. One is a simple sinwalli two stick drill. Sinawalli drills develop your hand-eye-stick coordination. One of the first drills taught is a 4-count drill. With a stick in each hand, feed a strike with your right hand, from overhead right at slight diagonally downward angle. Your partner does the same, so your sticks end up meeting at your center lines. Then feed a right hand strike at the lower level from your left side, again your partner does likewise so your sticks meet at a low center line. You're now half done. Now do likewise with your left hand. 1-2-3-4. 1-2-3-4. 1-2-3-4. A simple 4-count drill. (sorry, not so easy to describe in ascii) A more advanced stick fighting drill is flow sparring. You and your partner each have a stick. You execute any strike at your opponent, they counter. Then they stike at you, you counter. Then you strike back, they again counter. Then they stike at you, ... Continue to exhaustion... Drills from others? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:08:06 -0800 (PST) From: Rodriguez John To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Differences Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi fellows! This message is to the Pekiti Tirsia's people because I saw some short videos from Tuhon McGrath with the 12 hitting angles of the system and they are differents from the 12 more common angles I knew (such as Inosanto's numbering system and others). I would like to know if this different hitting pattern is only of this system or not. I wonder that in the 12 angles of Tuhon McGrath there are 4 point thrusts (two of them very similars) and there isn't opposite hits of others (like numbers 6 and 7) and they are done at one side only. Excuse my English and my questions Juan Carlos - Cuba John Charles Wing Tzun EBMAS Cuba --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "jay de leon" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: theclassic33@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:17:14 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Crafty and GP Abon's Buno Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As usual, words of wisdom from Crafty and my kabayan GP Baet on their latest posts. My own observation : (1) In the Philippines, (at least during my judo and karate days way back when), we also used the term "kimono." I only learned the word "gi" here in the US. So anybody who wants to correct Rickson can also take a side trip to RP and correct the thousands of "kimono"-wearing judokas and karatistas there. (2) I was just waiting to see which Tagalog ED member would say "buno" was a Tagalog word. But GP Baet pointed out something salient. For most Tagalogs, "buno" is usually just another colloquial word, just like "suntukan" or "tadyakan", with no "martial arts" connotation. You would have to be really FMA-savvy to know or even know of "buno" as a martial arts, or subsystem of a style, however you may want to call it. (3) Re the "kali" issue, I am still surprised that that one word can engender as much passion and emotion in FMA. I think there have been enough posts to suggest that the word "kali" had minimal to nonexistent use in RP, but has taken root and been given lineage by many Filipino grandmasters here in the US, either for marketing reasons or out of some cultural belief or rationalization. There is no reason to impugn their motives for doing so. In short, I agree with Crafty and GM Baet--laugh, let it go. Or even take the cynical point of view--it's too late anyway, Americans and Europeans will now be using the term "kali" forever; not a problem, as long as they do the art justice. To paraphrase Crafty, as far as I am concerned, Crafty learned "kali" from a legitimate, knowledgeable guro. If you want to correct him, see him at the next Gathering and tell him how wrong he is. Hopefully, he practices what he preaches and just laughs. On the other hand, if you catch him on a bad day, I need to warn you he carries a huge knot of a stick as he MC's during the Gathering. Jay de Leon _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Bobster" To: Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:30:52 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] What we call it... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi everybody, I just wanted to point out one thing, as yet unmentioned: "Eskrima" & "Arnis" are both spanish - based words, adopted (forced?) to the Filipinos. They are NOT terms with Filipino root-words. You can call it what you like, Guro Crafty brings up an excellent anology, but I would be curious: Did this art not have a name BEFORE the arrival of the spaniards? And was it referred to by that same name all over the various regions of the PI? Did it even EXIST before Magellan showed up & got stomped worse than a narc at a biker rally? This is all speculation, I am an American, I did not live in Cebu in the 1500's. But I have a hard time believing the term "Kali" was simply plucked out of the air to amuse the foreign students of fameous Eskrimadors. Why that term? Why not "Beans", or something? I realize we have examples from MANY different sources all over the PI as to WHO calls it WHAT. But as I compare Doce Pares with Sayoc, with Inosanto, with Lameco, with Modern Arnis, with Villabrille, with Pekiti Tersia, with Dekiti Tersia, with Bahala-Na, with Largo Mano (stop me when you've heard enough!) one thing is apparent: Names differ, approaches differ, but the FLAVOR is almost exactly the same. Put two practitioners of any of the above mentioned arts together, & they will end up speaking the same language physically, no matter WHAT they like to refer to themselves as. I don't mean that as an insult or slander, I respect everybody I have just mentioned. But think about it, unbiased, for a moment: The qualifying elements of most FMA styles are indicative of relaxation, flow, adaptability of technique, footwork, body english as opposed to rigid stances, etc. Everyone I mentioned practices these elements to some degree. We all seem to agree on important issues with regards to technique, but we go to war with each other over a NAME?? Slander our brothers & sisters because they are naturally curious about thier art & it's origins? I want to point out that as a martial art, we (FMA practitioners) have something unique to the world. I dare you: Try to find something else with this kind of adaptability & versatility to it ANYWHERE else in the world of martial arts. I hear it all the time: "We do Traditional (insert art here), but for weapons we do some Eskrima" We must be doing something right, finally they use us for spec-ops training & movie choreography, as opposed to some karate green-belt who never picked up a stick or a knife in his life. The label hung on any version of this art has never bothered me, I only concern myself with good training. If it kicks ass, so what if they call it "Beans"? Side note to Guro Crafty: Thank you for posting, sir. I realize this is only the ten-millionth time you've jumped into the middle of this topic, your opinion is always appreciated by me. Bobbe Edmonds "Truth carries with it the inherent necessity for change. The most common expression when change enforces itself is “Why didn’t anyone warn us?” Truly, they do not hear. Or, hearing, they do not choose to remember." --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "LOUIE LINDO" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:46:51 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] ILUSTRISIMO edged-weapon seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net ILUSTRISIMO Edged Weapon Seminar June 7, 2003 - Saturday 11:00 am - 5:00 pm Unit 160 - 5640 Hollybridge Way Richmond, B.C. Canada Fee : $45.00 US/CDN Single knife training will be conducted by Norman Z. Suanico (trained by the late GM Antonio A. Ilustrisimo in Manila). No pre-registration required. Contact Louie D. Lindo for further info via e-mail. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What we call it... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:05:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Let me start off by saying I could care less what someone wants to term their art; i.e. Eskrima, Arnis or Kali... > Did this art not have a name BEFORE the arrival of the spaniards? Did it? I'll submit that we just don't know. It wouldn't have to would it? Perhaps it was just called the appropriate term for 'fighting' in whatever dialect. Yes, perhaps one of those terms was Kali, but if it was that fact has seemingly been lost to time. > And was it referred to by that same name all over the various regions of the > PI? Did it even EXIST before Magellan showed up & got stomped worse than a > narc at a biker rally? Remember that Magellan and his handful of men were primarily defeated by very poor planning on his part (attacking at low tide) and the overwhelming odds of Lapulapu's fighting force. I'll also submit that the fact that Magellan and some of his men, including perhaps his own son, were killed by hundreds of attackers needed no 'martial arts' training to execute this defeat. Not that they didn't have an art and practice said art, perhaps they did, but we will probably just never know. Regardless, I still love Eskrima/Escrima/Kali/Arnis and will continue to teach it. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest