Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #116 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Eskrima stick drills (Ben Fajardo) 2. Re: What we call it... (braulio agudelo) 3. A lot of arts (Deveyra, Tito A.) 4. THAT FUNKY WORD!!! (NAVARRO FULBERT) 5. Re: What we call it... (Ray Terry) 6. FMA terminology (rocky pasiwk) 7. Why Filipinos get all upset... (glenn magpayo) 8. Differences (Philip Gelinas) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:23:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ben Fajardo Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima stick drills To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net ---Here is some from I'm website! Five count Cinco Taro angle attacks 1. Lt. temple 2. Rt. temple 3. Lt. elbow 4. Rt. elbow 5. thrust to stomach IMB 8 count flow set! Develop these flow sets as counters to the attacks above. 1. Figure eight downward 2. Redondo inside down 3. Redondo outside down 4. Rt. to Lt. diagonal (H-L) 5. Rt. to Lt. Diagonal (L-H) 6. Side to side 7. Figure eight upward (reverse) 8. Redondo outside up on left side of body. 9. Redondo inside up on right side of body 10. Abaniko over head 11. Thrust and slash over head to both sides 12. Punyo strikes downward figure eight. You don't have to do every set as listed, mix them up, use one at a time. Go from low line to high line. Be creative in your practice. Single Stick Drills w/ Low- High backhands after each set 1. Forward 8 2. Reverse 8 3. Abaniko (fan) 4. Head-weapon hand-head strikes 5. Weapon hand-head- weapon hand Cinco Taro angles 1-4 with these as follow ups 1. w/ backhand 2. w/backhand-redondo 3. w/backhand-double redondo 4. w/ backhand- 2-1 angle x strikes 5. w/backhand-redondo 2-1 angle x strikes 6. w/backhand-2-1 x strikes redondo 7. w/backhand-Witik 2-1 angle x strikes 8. w/backhand- redondo, diagonal down-up strikes, redondo Using the forward and reverse triangle footwork you have a great workout here! make sure you train both hands! Nubreed Martial Arts Kali/Silat systems, Guro Ben Fajardo Ray Terry wrote: > > Hello, I have recently gained intreast in this > martial art. I was > > wondering if anyone would be able to explain a few > stick fighting drills > > for me. > > Good question, and this is the best place to ask... > > There are a variety of stick fighting drills, I'll > attempt to describe only > two. Others can add their own contributions. > > One is a simple sinwalli two stick drill. Sinawalli > drills develop your > hand-eye-stick coordination. One of the first > drills taught is a 4-count > drill. With a stick in each hand, feed a strike > with your right hand, from > overhead right at slight diagonally downward angle. > Your partner does the > same, so your sticks end up meeting at your center > lines. Then feed a right > hand strike at the lower level from your left side, > again your partner does > likewise so your sticks meet at a low center line. > You're now half done. > Now do likewise with your left hand. 1-2-3-4. > 1-2-3-4. 1-2-3-4. A simple > 4-count drill. (sorry, not so easy to describe in > ascii) > > A more advanced stick fighting drill is flow > sparring. You and your > partner each have a stick. You execute any strike > at your opponent, they > counter. Then they stike at you, you counter. Then > you strike back, they > again counter. Then they stike at you, ... > Continue to exhaustion... > > Drills from others? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:04:09 -0800 (PST) From: braulio agudelo Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What we call it... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For thoughs willing to delve deeper into pre Spanish Pilipino culture there are words in our ancient myths and traditions for martial artists/warriors and their weaponry. I'd have to say do your own research if you are not satisfied. Braulio aka Mabagani --- Ray Terry wrote: > Let me start off by saying I could care less what > someone wants to term > their art; i.e. Eskrima, Arnis or Kali... > > > Did this art not have a name BEFORE the arrival of > the spaniards? > > Did it? I'll submit that we just don't know. It > wouldn't have to would it? > Perhaps it was just called the appropriate term for > 'fighting' in whatever > dialect. Yes, perhaps one of those terms was Kali, > but if it was that fact > has seemingly been lost to time. > > > And was it referred to by that same name all over > the various regions of the > > PI? Did it even EXIST before Magellan showed up & > got stomped worse than a > > narc at a biker rally? > > Remember that Magellan and his handful of men were > primarily defeated by > very poor planning on his part (attacking at low > tide) and the overwhelming > odds of Lapulapu's fighting force. I'll also submit > that the fact that > Magellan and some of his men, including perhaps his > own son, were killed by > hundreds of attackers needed no 'martial arts' > training to execute this > defeat. Not that they didn't have an art and > practice said art, perhaps > they did, but we will probably just never know. > > Regardless, I still love Eskrima/Escrima/Kali/Arnis > and will continue to > teach it. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:24:45 -0800 From: "Deveyra, Tito A." To: Subject: [Eskrima] A lot of arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree. There are many indigenous names for the arts practiced. In the remote islands of Matampusa, in central Philippines, the arts was also called Kiki (or Kalikiki, depending on the region). Dumog is known as Damakol. It has a lot of empty hand takedowns similar to Indonesian silat. There is also a lot of push-pull techniques. The bladed weapons component is also practiced although non-bladed weapons are used to practice - stick and stick (tipaklong), stick and dagger (kangkong) and single stick (ketong). Knife is saksak. This particular art has also been practiced before the Spaniards by the Muslim inhabitants and traders. Like a lot of arts, this was forced into hiding during the Spanish colonization (~1565-1898). The old practicioners (Manongs) that practice it usually never do outside of their "clan". However, within the last 30 years, with the popularity of FMA around the globe and the economic difficulties of the nation, this has changed. The Manongs used to practice with live blade. But they've adapted it to a safer method. It's interesting to note the similarities and influences with other FMA arts - specially in the larga mano range. It's been more than 10+ years since I spoke to one of the proponents Dr. Hernicio Palayok. He is very friendly and will treat you like his own family. Tito de Veyra --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:59:17 -0800 (PST) From: NAVARRO FULBERT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] THAT FUNKY WORD!!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GREETINGS TO ALL!!! Ever since I subscribed, I have constantly encountered that term KALI. Anyway, I guess I may be able to shed a bit of light to you all. I have been doing some research on this matter and I was trying to trace the origin of the art in order to know its history. Like what my teacher in Sociology 2 in the University of San Carlos had said, "One must have a deep sense of history for a citizen to be proud of his roots." I have encountered that term when I was in Badian (a provonce of Cebu). If I can recall it correctly, my grandmother mentioned to me a word "KALI" which she described as eskrima as she was telling me one of her World War-II stories. When I was in highschool, I learned that the term was also used to describe our visayan broadsword "KAMPILAN" and that the term was adopted (although I can't seem to remember correctly). And last semester, my teacher in P.E. 14 course said that somewhere in Luzon, they call eskrima as "Pagkali-kali" and "Kalirongan" I don't know if that was in Pampanga or somewhere else. But really dear sirs, it is not the term that is important. The fact that it is filipino and that some of our brethren wants to spread the art in every filipino's heart is what matters the most. It is really an honor on our part to know that foriegners are very interested and enthusiastic to learn our art but at the same time, it hurts me (as a Nationalist) so much to hear that my fellow filipinos especially the youth prefer playing basketball and other foriegn sports than our very own art. I hope I have made myself clear and that everyone understands me... Wassalamu Alaikum(peace be upon you), Navarro, Fulbert A. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What we call it... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:37:54 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > For thoughs willing to delve deeper into pre Spanish > Pilipino culture there are words in our ancient myths > and traditions for martial artists/warriors and their > weaponry. I'd have to say do your own research if you > are not satisfied. The problem, or one problem, is we do not know how or if these (or any) ancient myths and traditions have changed over the last 750 or 1,500 years, yes? That is the problem with oral traditions and myths that are handed down through the years, they unfortunately change over time. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:35:13 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA terminology Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have always thought that as an American, with poor English skills :-) I felt it was better to not even try to fumble thru a language like that of the my Filipino friends, especially if so many of them can't agree on many words. Sorry GM Gat, but I have to use you as my example here :-) trust me it is nothing bad but a while back when you were pissed off at me and sent me a latter in the dialect that you speak, I had 3 different Filipinos, 2 on this digest and Gm Buot translated it to me in English, and guess what........... Not on of the three agreed word for word what it said. So how in the heck am I going to be 100% confident that I am using the correct terminology in my teaching. If Gm Buot tells me a word means one thing, and Gm Presas uses it a different way and GM Gat another and so on and so on. So I fig instead of Buno, or Dumog, I call it ground fighting, and a parry or a punch is just that. Now don't get me wrong I would love for someone to teach me a Filipino dialect, simply because I love the Filipino arts, and for the most part the Filipino people, but I don't have the time or anyone that would teach me. The art that I teach is probably 50 to 60% Filipino arts, I call it Cuentada De Mano the Cuentada is a term GM Buot uses and refers to it in Cebuano as a word meaning Strategies, and the De Mano is a word phrase GM Presas used I believe in Tagalog or Spanish for " the Hand, so in order to show respect for my two Filipino teachers I called it Cuentada De Mano ( or roughly Strategies of the hand). But that is about as far as I go, simply because I am not qualified to teach a different language.I fig my time is better spent trying to teach someone how to defend them selves, leave the history and the foreign language studies to those more qualified to teach. I feel honored to have learned the arts of the Filipino people. I also feel that they should feel great honor and pride in the fact that so many of us want to learn their arts. I really think that what ever you choose to call the particular FMA that you practice is not as important as how you represent the art that you have learned. The Dog Brothers Martial arts is a perfect example of " What's in a name". In many a culture around the world a Dog is a filthy animal not worthy of a merciful killing if they were wounded. And in some countries they often eat Dogs. Yet in other cultures a Dog is a loyal, companion to be treated as one of the family. So how would these other cultures look upon you if you said you were a Dog Brother, some might wonder why you would insult yourself to such a degree. On the other hand once they work with you and see your abilities and realize that in order to be a Dog brother, regardless of if your dog name is cool or silly, you have to be a competent martial artist, and it is this representation of the art that gives the name that Marc, and Eric and who ever else put DBM together the respectability it has in the FMA community. And now the term or name DBM is a part of the Filipino arts and history as is Kali, Modern Arnis and Hopefully Cuentada De Mano, and many others. So if you call it Kali, eskrima or Arnis, as long as you are competent, and represent it properly, what difference does it make if its an old term or a newly made up word, as long as it represents Filipino martial arts, with the pride and respect they deserve that's all that matters Just my 2 cents worth Rocky --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:37:50 -0800 (PST) From: glenn magpayo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Why Filipinos get all upset... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Perhaps it would help if those who use the term "Kali" acknowledge what it is: an old, of date term that has recently been revived. I am an American-born Filipino with probably less historical knowledge than most non-Filipinos here. But I have been around long enough to know that you get a rise out of older Filipinos when you "care" so little about the culture of the Philippines, then proceed to lecture born and bred Filipinos like you know more than they do. Good examples are: 1. The 1,000 dialect argument. As if a non-Tagalog speak would know more than a native Filipino. 2. GM/Grand Tuhon/Guro/late Master (insert name here) uses it. Maybe they are not in it for the money. But think about it; you've built your name promoting yourself as a "Kali" master. Is it so ludicrous to believe that some stick by the name to maintain integrity? Some simply didn't know that there was no "mother art" of Kali when they began using the term... 3. Words with the letters "k-a-l-i" in them. Brother, please! Really, what matters is the effectiveness of the art you teach. But I think it is insulting when you revive a name and then use it to convince newbies that your art is somehow older/more complete/more authentic than everyone else who chose not to change the name. I know it would sit a little better with me if those who teach "Kali" did not try to pass it off as different from Arnis/Eskrima... --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Philip Gelinas" To: Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:50:42 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Differences Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Regarding the striking methods of Pekiti Tirsia I would say that most, if not all, the FMAs have their own individual striking patterns. Guro Inosanto's pattern is most known due to his incredible influence over people who mostly say they were not influenced by him. Pekiti Tisia's seems so different because the single stick abecedario is focused on the corto, or close quarter, combat technologies and not the more commonly found medio and largo ranges. The seeming imbalance is because we have found that the body does not operate the same way when using the same hand on both sides of the body. For example the low and high fore hand thrust is balanced with only the low backhand thrust while in the sak-sak grip making a balanced move impractical and dangerous to the practitioner. Hope This helps. Philip Gelinas Mandala Tuhon Pekiti Tirsia --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 24/07/2002 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest