Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 03:01:49 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #122 - 1 msg X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Fwd: Re: Kali debate (Garrote Olisi Eskrimador) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:26:37 -1100 From: "Garrote Olisi Eskrimador" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.eudoramail.com) Subject: [Eskrima] Fwd: Re: Kali debate Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This will be my last post on the issue on kali as I don't want to pre-empt the research that some my colleagues are preparing. I hold the name Roland Dantes in high esteem and I don't mean any disrespect to his person and that goes to the other Grandmasters that call their art kali. Nevertheless, our contention on kali remains as long as we cannot find proof of an authentic documented lineage that traces it back to pre-hispanic philippines. With all due respects I don't want to rebuke point by point what has been passionately argued here. Allow me instead to give you this link to enlighten you on the hoaxes of pre-hispanic Philippines. : http://www.mts.net/~pmorrow/kalant_e.htm I've also spent a one half of my life in Mindanao, travelled and logged thousands of miles driving in those places mentioned by Master Roland Dantes. Silat and kuntao are indegenous to the Yakan tribes of Basilan Island, there seems to be NO direct link to modern FMA. Well, some moves might be closely analogous, but that doesn't prove anything. A shark attacking prey off the shores of Baja, California uses the same techniques as the sharks in the Great Barrier reef. There are only a FINITE number of moves. Chisao (pardon the spelling) is closely analogous to the hubad lubod of Balintawak, but hey, you can't say Yip Man copied from Anciong Bacon or vice versa! They're as different as sharks and whales. I also hold no prejudice against the Moro people. I've always maintained that they deserve autonomy and independence. This is the only solution to peace and stability in the Mindanao region and the entire archipelago as well. But that's getting a little bit off track. For one last time, let me get back on this other issue posted by another subscriber on the story that Tatang Ilustrisimo trained with a Moro fighter. I presume he must have picked up the story from the late PG Edgar Sulite's book "The Secrets of Arnis Kali and Eskrima". In the book, PG Sulite narrated of the story in Tatang's childhood that he stowed away at nine years of age to Mindanao and was adopted by the Sultan of Sulu, a certain Sultan Muhammad. Sulite further elaborated that Tatang Ilustrisimo trained in Mindanao with a certain Pedro Cortes...doesn't sound ISLAMIC at all? So where's his Moro teacher? None! Let's do some arithmetic. Tatang was born in 1907 add 9 that gives us the year 1916 when he run away from home to Mindanao and was taken by his supposedly foster father Sultan Muhammad. Wrong! The reigning Sultan of Sulu during at that time was Sultan Jamalal Kiram II whose reign lasted until 1936. Notwithstanding this discrepancy the book is a good material, very well documented and showcases the best of the Grandmasters in the country...and that goes for the "The Secrets of Kalis Ilustrisimo"!---MUST READ...that I swear! PEACE! -- Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest