Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:35:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #130 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Palmstick, rope and spear seminar (bill m) 2. Baguio City Stick Fight Tournaments (John W. Nakihid) 3. Quotes and attitudes... (Roan Grimm) 4. Left hand/Right Hand training (Steven Lefebvre) 5. re: the values of extreme training (Patrick Davies) 6. Re: hard core vs. longevity (Kes41355@aol.com) 7. Re: Attitude in training (Marc Macyoung) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "bill m" To: Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:49:36 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Palmstick, rope and spear seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A question came up a while back about palmstick techniques. I'll be teaching a seminar this coming Saturday in Hartford, CT that will include palmstick. The palmstick is an excellent training tool for the miniflashlight and closed pocketknife. I like to teach palmstick before my regular knife classes as it teaches the students to hit hard and not rely on a cut with a small pocketknife blade to stop a determined man quickly. I really notice a difference in the student's sparring when they have gone through palmstick training before they have learned knife. With knife alone, most students have a tendency to "play tag" when knife sparring. After palmstick training I find that they are far more decisive during sparring and are much more committed to getting the job done quickly. Along with palmstick I'll also be teaching rope and spear techniques. For more information, email Dave Everett at: taochi@white-lotus.com or visit: http://www.white-lotus.com/Special_Events.html Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Email: tuhonbill@pekiti-tirsia.com PTI website: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "John W. Nakihid" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:30:38 +0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Baguio City Stick Fight Tournaments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings to everyone I am John Nakihid, I am the current President of Philippine Martial Arts Crusader's Club Based here in Baguio City, The Philippines. I wish to inform other interested individuals that we are planning to hold a monthly Open Arnis competition here in Baguio City. We were very successful in the last tournament held last March 30, 2003 here at the Igorot Park at Burnham Park and the competition was sponsored by the Baguio City Police Office. Several Local Arnis Schools joined in the competition. It is not at a large scale but it took us the whole day to officiate the sparring competition for several divisions and the Open Forms(Anyo) competition. Next tentative schedule will be on April 27th, 2003 and hopefully the City Mayor's office will sponsor the next tournament. We already had two tournaments held, the first one was held last February, 2003 at La Trinidad, Benguet, a twenty minute ride from Baguio City. Protective gears used are only the the head gears, the padded stick and the arm guard, nothing more. I am hoping for any suggestion or assistance to help us hold a more improved competition here in the Summer Capital of the Philippines. Mabuhay ang Arnis, Kali escrima. Nagpupugay John --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Roan Grimm" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:38:22 -1000 Subject: [Eskrima] Quotes and attitudes... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey all, I figured since those were my quotes I'd relate my philosophy behind them (BTW, sorry about the extra long signature accident, still not sure what happened, but my email sent out like four signatures tacked onto that one email). Anyway, Marc wrote: >I was looking at the following quotes > "We must remember that one man is much the same as another >and he is best who is trained in the severest school." --Thucydides > "The will to win compares little with the will to prepare to >in." --Coach Bear Bryant > "Who dares wins." --British SAS >"Pain is merely weakness leaving the body." --Anonymous >--RKG >Now mind you as one who lived an "extreme" lifestyle I now >say "The only thing I ever got out of being a hard man was a hard life." >It was my exteme attitudes that got me into extreme situations. >Now I can understand the hardcore "hoo-ya" attitude as part of a larger >whole. (i.e. "He are a Marine"). It is there that you sacrifice yourself >to the greater whole. But I have a question...to what avail is that to >the individual? Well, first off -- I WERE a Marine. ;) And I definately think I've kept some of the attitudes they instilled...and I think it's a good thing. In respects to what that attitude avails the individual, I'm not sure. I do know that I don't walk around with five tons of attitude on my shoulder. I mean, I like the quotes, and they speak to my philosophy of life. Not that I'm walking around "knocking bullets out of the air with my di**." (Thanks for the quote, Animal ;) I just believe that once one settles into accepting a life of not challenging and pushing your limits, life will have a mediocre flavor at best. And before this is misinterpreted, let me explain further. If you don't train for self-defense, that's cool. Push yourself in business, or step aerobics, or rock-climbing, or whatever the hell you want. But just push yourself to do YOUR personal best. >I mean, unless you are a member of a larger group with a definate >purpose -- one that regularly puts you into the line of fire --what value >is training in the extreme? >Now before anyone fires off with "Well if I ever had to use this, I'd..." >or "Well if anyone ever attacked my family..." I will tell you me standard >response of "Does that happen to you often? If so, what are you doing that >provokes those kind of problems?" Now I'm going to fire off with the "Well if anyone ever attacked my family..." The answer to your standard response is, it almost never happens to me and I've never provoked those kinds of problems. But by your own admission Marc, the world is not a safe place. The only time real violence reared its ugly head in my personal "civilian" life was in Tijuana while I was still in the Corps. Ugly situation that ended with a Marine stabbed in the neck and dying in my arms. And I didn't have time to do anything except cry while he died...no kung fu heroics or any bullsh*t like that, just saw a flash, lots of blood, and a dying buddy. It sucked because up until that moment I had always imagined myself pulling off some Steven Seagal-esque manuver to save the day. But reality has an excellent way of crushing ones ego. Back to my original point, since then I have never been in a situation like that. But who can promise me that one day this doesn't happen: my car breaks down in the ghetto section of some big city, or my family and I are attacked while on vacation in Europe in some supposedly "nice, safe tourist friendly" section of some random city, or god forbid I'm at home with my family when Mr. Freaky Sociopath Nutjob breaks in with serious intent of bodily harm to my children? While the statistical chances of me being eaten by a shark WHILE being struck by lighting are probably better than the aforementioned scenarios, the very fact that they are within the realm of possibility (if not probability) give me reason to train to the extreme. The old, "I would rather have it and never need it than need it and not have it" comes to mind. Hell, Animal, the only reason I ever bought your books was for that possibility. >So my question is... without going off into fantasy-land about how this >prepares you for "real" violence...what are the values of extreme training >for the individual? What purpose does it serve? What do you use it for? >What demonstrable benefits do you get out of it? Marc, I know how much you hate the standard answer of "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six." I'm not a big fan of it myself, but again, the quotes I have as my signature are simply about an attitude to life in general, not necessarily within the realm of violence or martial arts. > "We must remember that one man is much the same as another >and he is best who is trained in the severest school." --Thucydides Along with my other Thucydides quote, I believe the applications can apply to anything in life. Degrees from such prestigious universities as Columbia, Harvard, MIT, USC are highly sought because of the rigorous academic programs they have. But I do believe that a severe training ground creates a stronger person. Like the high black belt turn out rates from strip mall martial arts "schools". Often, the black belts are mediocre fighters. Compare that against a white belt in a school that trains "real world" mentality. Or a no belt that graduates Peyton Quinn's RMCAT facility. I'd hate to be the poor shmuck who goes after one of Quinn's adrenaline scenario graduates! Again, most people who know me would probably agree I not a troublemaker or seeker, just someone who doesn't ever want to be a statistic. > "The will to win compares little with the will to prepare to win." -->Coach Bear Bryant Again, I'm not a big fan of people who train unrealistically, but maintain that if in a real situation, "Oh yeah, if it was real I'd eyejab them and then smash a kneecap and elbow the throat." Well, 1) no, unless you train realistically for those specific attributes, you won't AND 2) if you did, and that level of force wasn't justified, have fun in prison, pal. American society is highly litiguos (sp?) and the justice system doesn't have the best track record. Too bad, so sad, life sucks. Deal with it. > "Who dares wins." --British SAS This, is just a hell of a cool motto. The SAS are some seriously bad mofos and it's a simple, yet incredibly encompassing statement about life. If you always play it safe, if you risk nothing, you gain nothing of great importance. Anything you have to work hard for is held more valuably than that which is easily attained. Human nature. >"Pain is merely weakness leaving the body." --Anonymous This one I admit is simply a mantra held over from the Marines. Semper Fi Now, before anyone assumes anything incorrectly, let me explain I hold nothing but the highest respect for Marc/Animal. He has lived a life I have no desire to live and has come through it alive and intact (more or less) ;). I have many of his books and have used them as the basis for the self-defense programs I put on for the dorms at my college. He is generous with his hard won information and only asks for credit where credit is due. My perception of real world violence is tremendously influenced by his material and I recommend it to anyone interested in no nonsense self-defense. His writing is direct, simple and quite often, hilarious. But, I did feel the need to explain my rationale behind my quotes. Again, no macho-badass-I'm-tougher-than-Superman-crap, just a simple belief on how I'd like to live my life. Peace, respect and an open mind. Aloha, Roan Kalani Grimm "We must remember that one man is much the same as another and he is best who is trained in the severest school." "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it." --Thucydides "The will to win compares little with the will to prepare to win." --Coach Bear Bryant "Who dares wins." --British SAS -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Steven Lefebvre" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:56:38 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Left hand/Right Hand training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, A different perspective on left and right hand training: In Sayoc Kali, the left and right hands are trained independently and are not always just a mirror image. Here is an overview of the template methodology: The right hand vital templates are designed to counter reflexive and conditioned responses. The left hand vital templates were designed to react to correct responses. We also apply our left hand vital templates, that were developed to counter the right hand vital templates. There is a more detailed explaination on the website at www.Sayoc.com, but I would be interested if any one else uses this type of training methodology. Gumagalang Guro Steve L. www.Sayoc.com www.Bujinkandojo.net _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Patrick Davies To: 'eskrima digest' Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:44:37 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] re: the values of extreme training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc MacYoung: So my question is... without going off into fantasy-land about how this prepares you for "real" violence...what are the values of extreme training for the individual? What purpose does it serve? What do you use it for? What demonstrable benefits do you get out of it? Nowadays marc, I don't really get into trouble as I am no longer in the firing line like the old days. However I have trained with a broad range of instructors and have watched and made my mind up on some things. There are two considerations here for me, personal growth and paying the rent. We take our time and work the finer points but then we test it and from that test we learn what works at times and we learn about ourselves. In that lies growth. From that lesson I can allow myself the time to work gently in certain areas safe in the knowledge that it really does work if and when I require it. I do that as I have seen guys who were 'black belts' freeze when in the firing line. I have seen myself injured and yet still survive a mob attack while the 'black belt' was missing in action. Extreme training is one vehicle that allows you to achieve the above. The balance between extreme and 'esoteric' is a fine one. I go and learn from Instructors who teach me things despite the fact they have never fought them. They are skilled in passing on the training. However I know that I can give my students a breadth of knowledge because I have an understanding of what its like to do it in 'real time'. At the gym I have a fine line in which to cater for fee paying members who are the bread and butter of the gym and to those who are the fighters. If I go too far to the fighters I lose the numbers required to pay the rent. Yet if someone wants to fight they need the base in which to successfully raise them up. When training for a Vale Tudo fight last year, I was put through the grinder in a class run by one of the instructors I have trained known for its toughness. The class members were always up for it or at least liked to be seen as such. Needless to say they stopped attending as when the theory and practice met the truth was seen and my fight preparation was in an empty classroom. Now I separate my fighters from the class. Some students will also get themselves in trouble because they think they can handle themselves. Testing allows them to keep their feet on the ground. The number of students who went off as doormen and became steroid freaks thinking that they were good enough! If they had learnt through testing then maybe humility might have sent them on a better route, assuming the lessons of a test can be learnt by all. Knife training is a perfect example where extreme training can teach the vulnerability of knife fighting and give good reason why fitness is important for the choice of flight. Esoteric training may give false qualification, an argument I have seen you air many times. But testing, or extreme training, is but one tool. It still needs the right attributes to make it work and that comes down to the quality of the instructor. Safety should be important as while a bruise heals a cracked skull can end a persons involvement. Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:47:58 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: hard core vs. longevity Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, >>>I have always said that I love martial arts but hate > martial artists.<<< Nice quote, Nat, wish I'd said it first. I love the arts, but have been put off time and again by the nits I continue to run into. Almost to a person (or to a nit), these folks have little to no training outside of watching the latest flavor-of-the-month video, but can quote the all-too-familiar "we use only what works" philosophy word for word. >>>I know too many older (sadly that> means 30+ in most > cases) martial artists who complain of artharitic > hands, herniated disks, and stainlees steel knees. > How did this happen? I seemed to have misplaced my > PHD, but I bet I could take a guess.<<< See the hand raised here, folks?? I have two shiny new titanium and polymer knees, (that I freak out folks at work with for laughs by setting off the metal detectors with my knees), two wasted hands, and arthritis in my lower spine that is having a serious effect on my legs. I was one of those hard core guys in my youth, that didn't have sense enough to taper off when I hit my 30's. Consequently I pay for it now with constant pain, lack of sleep (the pain again), and at times, an old man's hobble. Listen to your bodies, folks, when it starts telling you through those little twinges and aches that your training is taking a toll, and it's time to use some sense. If you use your head and train sensibly, you can enjoy a long and healthy career as a martial artist. Or, go about it like I did, and sit on the sidelines warming the bench at a far too young age. I am pretty much retired from martial arts now (I'll be 48 in 2 weeks), and take it from me, you do not get used to being a spectator after years of playing. And don't forget about the effect your training has on the rest of your life (yes, there is a life outside the arts). My wife has suffered through 10 surgeries in 15 years with me without the first complaint (God bless her); to me, she's the tough one, not me. And, there were all those times that I couldn't play with my kids due to being laid up. If you ask me, that doesn't sound like much of a life, now does it? Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:34:22 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Attitude in training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From Marc Animal MacYoung > Good Question.It gives me personal satisfaction.I dont need any other > reason.Although I could argue that there are many. > This may sound trite or cute but that isnt why I say it. > Simply after contemplating your question I determined that it is the > simplist and most accurate anwser. > I like it.I'll leave the more intellectual-philosophical answers for > someone else. > Barry Meadows > Sweat More-Bleed Less Ya know, that's probably the most honest answer that I get to this question. And yeah, it is a totally valid one. Whether it arises from the endorphine rush, the thrill of contest or the love of competition, personal enjoyment is a legitimate answer for the individual. While the long term advantage is questionable, the in the moment "I dig it" makes perfect sense. BTW, my question isn't to degrade or condemn this kind of training. It is to get different perspectives and to see if there is anything that I am overlooking or missing. I knew that the reason I engaged in extreme training way back when was that I was also engaged in an extreme lifestyle. As such, it really was a matter of survival as conflict and engagement were routine aspects of life. If the "fittest" and "most hardcore" wasn't the only factor, it was a large factor in making to the next day. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest