Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:50:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #139 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. list slow ? (Ray Terry) 2. Re: Re:Serrada as a blade art (Ray Terry) 3. RE: Re: Playing The Hard Game (Mike Casto) 4. pain and bruises (Kristine Strasburger) 5. Re: Stick as a bookmark for a blade (Dave Sheehy) 6. Frederick, MD Retreat (Nate Defensor) 7. Re: Playing The Hard Game (Dave Sheehy) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] list slow ? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net fyi, I'm leaving town again soon for a few days. If I can find an internet cafe in Amsterdam the list will remain up and functional, but if not... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re:Serrada as a blade art To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > First of all, Mike Inay stressed to us that Serrada was first and foremost a > blade art. Exactly. After studying Serrada and also Doce Pares I can see a real diff between a stick fighting art like the Doce Pares and a blade art like Serrada. The strikes/cuts, blocks, blade awareness (or lack of it), body mechanics, etc are all different. Not that one is better than the other, just that they are different. imho, knowing both ways is better than knowing only one. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: Playing The Hard Game Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:19:46 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't think the pain and bruises ever stop. Even if you're not doing "hard contact play" anymore (or never have), you end up with pain and bruises in regular play/teaching. A newbie whacks your knuckles. Or, in an off moment, you crack yourself in the elbow with your stick. Or whatever. If you play hard at all, then pain and bruises are even more frequent. Skill only decreases the frequency and level. But they still happen, even if only when you're having a bad day. Personally, I think pain is an integral part of training. Injury, though, should be avoided. Injury causes us to get rusty while we recuperate. That's non-productive. Pain is fleeting and doesn't sideline us. We just learn from it and get better. That's productive. Mike -----Original Message----- From: al sardinas [mailto:energy_as@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:08 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Playing The Hard Game Kristine Strasburger wrote that pain and bruises "are an inevitable part of hard contact play" and "properly considered, pain and bruises should be seen as useful training aids." My question to Kristine is when do the pain and bruises stop? I basically agree with everything you wrote but at some point in time the pain and bruises should stop. The point where TRAINING becomes SKILL. Kristine, I hope you have reached that point or soon will reach it because the older you get the harder it is for the body to recover. I am sure that you don't want pain and bruises to be THE reason for you to end your martial arts training. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:46:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristine Strasburger To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] pain and bruises Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Al Sardinas wrote: Kristine Strasburger wrote that pain and bruises "are an inevitable part of hard contact play" and "properly considered, pain and bruises should be seen as useful training aids." My question to Kristine is when do the pain and bruises stop? I basically agree with everything you wrote but at some point in time the pain and bruises should stop. The point where TRAINING becomes SKILL. Kristine, I hope you have reached that point or soon will reach it because the older you get the harder it is for the body to recover. I am sure that you don't want pain and bruises to be THE reason for you to end your martial arts training. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis Hello Al, Thanks for your response. To answer your question above; in my experience, the more you push yourself in your training, the better you get. And the better you get, the less you get hit. So, yes, the quantity and degree of pain and bruises you end up with at the end of each day of "battle" do decrease as your skill increases. The whole key to that, however, is in being willing to step outside of your comfort zone, and really test your current skills. As in most areas of life, reaching a higher level of skill or knowledge requires going beyond focusing on what one already knows. Everyone practices more in the things they want to get better at. I want to get better at using my basic foundational skills in eskrima under pressure; I want to get better at applying tactical strategy; and I want to get better at sensing the flow and energy of my opponent. There are many ways to further develop these skills, only one of which is hard-contact play. Al, I think it is safe to say, having read your posts in the past, that you know all of these things already. You are on my list of people that I would really like to meet someday, and I hope our paths do cross. I can't really say at what point the pain and bruises actually STOP for a person, because as long as they are willing to push and test themself they risk going up against someone who is much better than they are, and then a bruise or two is inevitable (but will most likely be minor). As for me, I am trying to get better before I get older. Best Regards, Kristine Strasburger Heartland School of Eskrima and Self-Defense __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Dave Sheehy Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Stick as a bookmark for a blade To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:25:47 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Brandon wrote: > The strikes in Serrada, when executed as taught, will > result in a blade bcoming firmly lodged in your > target. They are inarguably blunt trauma strikes. FWIW, I was taught two ways of executing the techniques in Serrada, bouncing and drawing. The drawing version slices and the bouncing version hacks (i.e. what you describe as blunt trauma). Someone (Bill McGrath IIRC) had a tremendous post about hacking versus slicing and its applicability to size/mass of the blade used. One of his basic points was that hacking is practical for larger, heavier blades where you are lopping parts off versus slicing. > The target that I used as my test medium was a > standing dead elm trunk, 32 inches in circumfrence, > and in an advanced state of decay. The wood is still > tough and stringy, but is rapidly becoming rotted and > waterlogged. The blade that I used is a reground > Tramontina machete, which now has a bolo shaped blade, > 18 3/4 inches long and quite sharp. I think what you shown is that if you don't practice actually cutting with a blade that you won't be competent when you actually try to cut something. That has nothing to do with whether Serrada is or is not a blade system. > Im sure that my test is faulty on both a scientific > and technique level, but I think that it does show > that Serrada has truly evolved into a stick art as > opposed to true blade fighting. You make a point here. If a practitioner of a blade style never actually practices cutting things they will lose the feedback and insight that will guide them in refining their motion to keep the curiculum "real". They will soon lose (or never gain in the first place) the little details that make the blade work. Whether that is happening to Serrada (locally or globally) is an interesting topic that will generate lots of umm... debate. ;-) Dave --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:38:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Nate Defensor To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Frederick, MD Retreat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> Filipino Martial Arts Weekend >> Second Annual Frederick Retreat >> Saturday and Sunday May 17-18, 2003 >> Frederick, MD. >> Featuring: Guro Nate Defensor >> >Is this suitable for beginners? What are the Training prerequesties? > >Thanks, > >JAck JAck, The Frederick, Maryland FMA Weekend Retreat is for both beginners and Advance practitioners. There is no prerequisite. One does not even need previous Martial Arts experience. The structure is designed so both beginners and Advance Martial Artists can learn & enjoy the material to be taught. There will be Advance students willing to share/learn/help/co-teach the material. Thanks, Nate ON Serrada/Wiley Thread: My two cents. Just the Serrada counters and flow sparring alone, depending on one's level of understanding and adaptability, one can use blades and slightly alter the motions to one's weapon may it be an 18" or 36' blade or stick. Obviously in some motions, the cutting part of the whole blade to parts of the blade may be used on the contact point of one's slash or strike. To keep it simple, if you have a stick, it is best/optimal to strike the collarbone with an angle one with the last few inches of the stick. If you have a "Pinuti" or "barong", or a machete it is best to deliver the angle one in a slashing motion making contact preferably w/ the middle or the last 1/3 to 1/2 end of the blade to optimize the cut or blow. With a heavy weapon, one can also alter the angle one strike to be like a cleaver and just whack whatever body part falls on that angle one line. One other thought, it is not the weapon that wins the fight, it is the individual that wins fights. And one advantage, Serrada practice develops is alot of speed & timing regardless of what type/size/length of weapon is used. Nate Defensor www.kalieskrima.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Dave Sheehy Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Playing The Hard Game To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:58:05 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Al Sardinas wrote: > Kristine Strasburger wrote that pain and bruises "are an inevitable part of > hard contact play" and "properly considered, pain and bruises should be seen > as useful > training aids." My question to Kristine is when do the pain and bruises > stop? I basically agree with everything you wrote but at some point in time > the pain and bruises should stop. The point where TRAINING becomes SKILL. I agree that as one becomes skilled the amount of pain and bruising decreases. But, assuming you are training with equally skilled partners it should never stop. If it does you're not be challenged enough. Which leads to the follow up question... > Kristine, I hope you have reached that point or soon will reach it because > the older you get the harder it is for the body to recover. I am sure that > you don't want pain and bruises to be THE reason for you to end your martial > arts training. This is the ultimate predicament we older martial artists must face. How hard can you continue to train and challenge yourself without sustaining debilitating injury? I think it ends up being a compromise where you cannot incorporate "hard contact play" to the degree you used to and continue to work out. You devise other ways to train and develop other skills that don't involve as much hard contact. I think this was at least some of the gist behind Animal's question. Is your training philosophy/methodology ultimately more destructive than constructive? Dave --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest