Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:01:49 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #140 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Fishkill NY seminar date change (bill m) 2. Black Belt article (Steven Drape) 3. hard training (David Eke) 4. Serrada as a blade art (serrada@lvcm.com) 5. Re:Serrada as a blade art (jonbroster@another.co.uk) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "bill m" To: Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:51:45 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Fishkill NY seminar date change Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Due to a scheduling conflict, I have had to change the date of a seminar I will be conducting in Fishkill, NY. Espada y Daga Level 2 Attacks & Disarms will now be held on May 17th. There will be no Fishkill seminar in April. For more information, please visit the Pekiti-Tirsia International seminars page at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/seminars.html Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Email: tuhonbill@pekiti-tirsia.com PTI website: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:55:57 +0300 From: "Steven Drape" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Black Belt article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >As well as the profile of the Hunted >movie and Sayoc Kali!! Of course with any >article there are some errors, Tuhon >Christopher Sayoc is the current head of the >Sayoc International Group, and is the driving >force behind Sayoc Kali, not his father Grand >Master Bo Sayoc. Who does continue to teach >his finger pressure control method in the >Philippines. >Guro Steve L. Hi Steve- Since I have not seen the finished article, after editing, I cannot state for sure what was actually printed. However, since I wrote the article, and I am sitting here looking at what was written, no where did I state that Tuhon Bo is the current head of Sayoc Kali! In fact, I wrote at least twice that Tuhon Bo is retired and living in the Philippines. In addition, everything that was submitted to Black Belt Magazine was first OK'ed by Tuhons Christopher Sayoc, Rafael Kayanan and Tom Kier. If it came through that Tuhon Bo is the current head, then I would suggest it had something to do with editing. (They wanted about 2000 words and I gave them nearly 3000, so cuts and/or changes were made, I'm sure.) Having been involved with the Sayoc family for well over 10 years, I tried very hard to get all the facts into the article. I'm a bit disappointed that some things seemed incorrect. Did the article come across that way to anyone else? Thanks. Steven Drape [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "David Eke" To: Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:18:49 +1000 Subject: [Eskrima] hard training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On the "extreme training" thread I think many people missed Marc's point. In all the MA s training I've had, physical violence is the first and sometimes only option trained for. How many instructors have seriously trained their students in the "Nike Defence". With all the Macho bullshit imbedded in the MA's I'd bet very few. Realistically, isn't the avoidance of physical conflict the first option not the last to be considered. I'd be interested in people's definitions of what "extreme training" is. For me it would be walking into a bar full of Aboriginals and calling them a "bunch of black c.ts" and then having to fight my way out. This extreme training technique would put me "under pressure and adrenaline response" as well as giving me first hand experience in having people wanting to do you harm. You just can't simulate (no matter how hard the training) some loon WANTING to smash a beer glass into your face. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 00:22:18 -0700 From: serrada@lvcm.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Serrada as a blade art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: > Mr. Wiley didn't really spend that much time training in Serrada. Per > Gm Vincent Cabales, Wiley never actually completed his training. So > it is not too surprising that he doesn't know it is a blade art. > > Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com Couldn't have said it better myself. Brandon wrote: > > The grip and body mechanics that I was taught needs to be modified > somewhat to allow effective use of a blade. I need to stress that > this is a result of my own study and NOT what I was taught. There is no modification needed to transfer between stick and sword. Why don't you give a few examples of what you think needs to be modified. > The strikes in Serrada, when executed as taught, will result in a > blade bcoming firmly lodged in your target. They are inarguably blunt > trauma strikes. And this is bad because....? Really though, the strikes (1and 2) are hard strikes to the collarbone (could be used as slices also). Strikes (3,4,8,9,11) are all slices. The remaining strikes (5,6,7,10,12) are all stabs. In the process of doing counters , the finishing(or final) move of the counter is supposed to be a very hard strike that will disable the opponents weapon hand. If your sword is lodged in his arm far enough that you can't get it out, I would say that he is pretty much disabled. > Im sure that my test is faulty on both a scientific and technique > level, but I think that it does show that Serrada has truly evolved > into a stick art as opposed to true blade fighting. From a purely > objective standpoint, it is difficult to see how the blocking > techniques would be very healthy to the edge of your blade. Blocking > with the flat is preferred, is it not? Evolved? I think this may be part of the problem. The original strikes and counters as taught can be easily translated from stick to sword to knife to empty-hand. Now knife and empty-hand do have different aspects. But, if you take the basic counters (outside, inside, and cross blocks), they can be translated almost exactly from the stick. The edge of the blade is never used in the blocks. Furthermore, for the majority of counters, the blade isn't even supposed to be used as the actual blocking mechanism. The majority of blocks are performed with the check hand with the blade being the deflection. This is a common conceptual error from people that learn serrada from someone that learned serrada from someone. Example: If the edge of the blade is towards the incoming weapon, (i.e. an inside block(sweep)), the blade edge is turned so that it slices along the flat of the other blade. Me personally, I like to train with a practice sword every now and then. This helps to ensure that you understand that this is a blade art and also helps to polish your techniques. I currently use either an aluminum kris or a hardwood shoto for this purpose. Jim --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:25:32 +0100 (BST) From: jonbroster@another.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Serrada as a blade art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Having spoken to Mark Wiley and various other instructors of the Serrada style (including Suro Inay) about this, I have come to the conclusion that Serrada does work reasonably well with a blade, but its focus is clearly on the stick, hence the choice of targets and body mechanics that are designed to maximize the impact trauma of a stick. By way of comparison, other styles do not emphasise the same body mechanics or targets. In Serrada we often hit the hip bone or the elbow or wrist, Kalis Ilustrisimo will cut diagonally upward across the torso, following the line of the rib, avoiding bones. It seems that to me that most people take it as a matter of honour that their system works with/against blades. If we try to inject a little objectivity however, how likely are we to every be in a sword fight? Stick work has always seemed far more practical to me and Serrada has always impressed me far more than other systems in this regard. Jon There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife! http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster -- Personalised email by http://another.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest