Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 03:01:49 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #144 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. training with a stick (Stephen Lamade) 2. Re: Re: sword vs stick (Ray White) 3. targets (David Whitley) 4. Re:Serrada as a blade art (Gints Klimanis) 5. Strikes 1 and 2 (Khalkee@netscape.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Stephen Lamade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:58:43 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] training with a stick Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On using the stick as a surrogate for a sword see: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze4fs8i/bodymechanics.htm This is but one aspect of the body mechanics for hitting with the stick with a cutting or slicing motion. Another one (which is probably familiar to most people) is to line up the second (middle) set of knuckles with the target to ensure that the "edge" of the stick passes through the target. If you train these two mechanics, the transition to the sword is easier down the road. There are undoubtedly many other ways to train with the stick, some of which focus on cutting with a blade, and some of which focus on striking with an impact weapon, that forum members may wish to share. With respect to the latter, training to hit as close to the end of the weapon as possible increases the leverage and may add force to the impact of the weapon on the target - particularly on bony targets. Someone once wrote on this forum that the point of hitting with the stick is to "powder bone." Hitting with the tip of the weapon will make this adage especially true with hard woods like bahi and kamagong. To a large degree, intent and aggression make up for the considerations above and turn them into fine points by comparision. Someone once swung a rebar (concrete reinforcement bar) at my head, and I don't think a difference of a couple of inches closer to the tip would have made a difference one way or the other if they had managed to make heavy contact. On the other hand, maybe I'm writing this today because they weren't so aware about hitting with the tip (I took a grazing shot to the side of my head). With respect to the sword, training to cut closer to the tip helps to increase distance between you and the opponent. This is admittedly more important in larga mano styles than in styles where you are closer to the opponent. Ultimately, its the design of the weapon that dictates footwork, mechanics, ranging, etc. Best, Steve Lamade _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Ray White" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: sword vs stick Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:01:48 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, Where would I find "Memories ride the ebb of time" by Leo Giron? Ray White www.absolutejkd.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jype" To: Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 11:16 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Re: sword vs stick > Hi all, > > I thought it might be a good time to quote one of those very > rare teachers to have tested their blade fighting theories > against live human beings. > > Extract from "Memories ride the ebb of time" by Leo Giron: > > "When engaged in a bolo knife combat, do not try to chop down > your foe with one blow. A light snap at the fleshy part of the > body especially on muscles will cut to the bone, assuming your > bolo is sharp. To cut across the bone hoping to sever the > portion of the body is taking a chance of breaking your bolo. > If it does not break, chances are that the bolo will get > stuck and since a dying man does not always fall down to your > favor you might not recover your bolo on time". > > > Jean-Yves Pernot > <<>> > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "David Whitley" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:29:10 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] targets Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have been taught that the angles do not represent specific targets as much as they train the delivery of the strike. For example, an angle 1 standing up is delivered along the same trajectory as angle 1 kneeling, squatting , on your back, etc., Whether the weapon you swing is a stick, knife, empty Hand, bottle,sword, dead cat, etc. the target will change depending on your spacial relationship to your opponant. angle one might be the arm, shouler, knee , thigh, chest(if he faces you with his side.)or neck(my favorite). this "aliveness" is one of my favorite things about the FMA. having said that, doesn't the "sword vs. stick" it all come down to awareness? if you got a blunt weapon, break the bad guy, if you got an edged weapon, make him leak. simple, direct, efficient. I am the weapon. DW _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:16:29 -0700 From: Gints Klimanis Organization: none To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Serrada as a blade art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ???? I don't know who you trained with or who showed you this, but this > is crap. The hip bone and elbow are not targets. The target for the > side of the torso(strikes 3 and 4) is between the bottom of the rib cage > and the top of the hip bone. The target on the weapon hand is between > the forearm and the end of the hand. The wrist, however, is a very good > target. Especially with a knife or sword. The elbow is also a fine target. I have quite a bit of rattan sparring video footage with matches ending or severaly disrupted after a shot to the elbow. Admittedly, nearly all of the shots were at a Serrada #1 level rather than #3. > Actually I am starting to take this as a litmus test to see who knows > what the hell they are talking about when it comes to Serrada. And in > all actuality, you are more likely to be in a knife fight than in a > stick fight. Think about it. How often do you go out with your stick > strapped to your side? How about a knife in your pocket? In all actuality, I believe that unarmed vs. unarmed would be the most likely, followed by weapon vs. unarmed. In my casual observations, I don't hear a lot of Serrada players talking about or training the latter. I agree with training for what is practical in our day. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:56:14 -0400 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Strikes 1 and 2 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Strikes one and two, while devastating with a stick >(as taught) are less effective as a slash. Not much >damage is inflicted by slashing the upper body, aside >from possibly detatching a pectoral. I've always interpreted strikes #1 and #2 as targeting the throat, shoulder, or forearm/hand if in range. These would be done with a retracting arcing motion, i.e., the damage is mostly done by the withdrawing part of the arc of the blade's movement (same with a large blade). This way the blade is less likely to get stuck, power is in the movement of the returning aspect of the arc ... just like the mechanics of using the curved swords, yes? In Inosanto's first book I think that he describes this as the way to train with the stick also. Pekiti Tirsia teaches the bent elbow and perpendicular grip I think ... which naturally yields an appropriate returning arc for every strike. Same return-arc effect as the type of striking described in Inosanto's book. I haven't dealt out any of this with a blade so it's just MHO ... casual consideration suggests though, that by striking this way we may more easily generalize from stick-to-blade / blade-to-stick and decrease the likelihood of getting a blade hung up in a target. Mitakuye Oyasin. Be well. __________________________________________________________________ Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days! http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 for FREE! Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest