Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:48:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #145 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Bapak Victor deThouars in Boston (lungmen.org) 2. Re: hip and elbow as targets (Kes41355@aol.com) 3. Re: Re:Serrada as a blade art (steven ledwith) 4. Re: Re: sword vs stick (lakanmdb@aol.com) 5. empty handed serrada (Kristine Strasburger) 6. Re:Targets,etc. (serrada@lvcm.com) 7. Sticks, swords - tools (Steve Klement) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "lungmen.org" Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 06:51:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: [Eskrima] Bapak Victor deThouars in Boston Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Once again we are pleased to host our guru, Bapak Vic deThouars in the Boston area. Pak will be teaching Pentjak Silat Serak at the Boston Martial Arts Center (Ninpo) in Allston, MA on May 3rd. Please contact me for further details at buddytripp@lungmen.org. Buddy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:56:39 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: hip and elbow as targets Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 4/13/03 4:51:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > ???? I don't know who you trained with or who showed you this, but this > > is crap. The hip bone and elbow are not targets Hi all, Sorry, but this is most definitely not "crap"...the elbow is a viable target if it happen to be in the "#3 & 4" lines of fire, as is the hip (if you've ever been whacked on the hip with anything, you would not dispute this. It will instantly disable you). Oh, and my lineage in Serrada Eskrima is solid enough to make this statement, BTW. Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 08:22:06 -0700 (PDT) From: steven ledwith Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re:Serrada as a blade art To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I live in Augusta Georgia and I met an Eskrima instructor who claimed to be an old student of Glover and Cabales I think. I'm not positive about that since it has been several years since I met him but I am positive he said he was a Serrada instructor. Any way I witnessed him and his student practicing with short 18 inch or so machete's , they did most of their drills with the machete's. Wish I could remember this instructors name, I will try to get it. --- serrada@lvcm.com wrote: > > Message: 5 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:25:32 +0100 > (BST) From: > > jonbroster@another.co.uk To: > eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: > > [Eskrima] Re:Serrada as a blade art Reply-To: > > eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > > Hi > > > > Having spoken to Mark Wiley and various other > instructors of the > > Serrada style (including Suro Inay) about this, I > have come to the > > conclusion that Serrada does work reasonably well > with a blade, but > > its focus is clearly on the stick, hence the > choice of targets and > > body mechanics that are designed to maximize the > impact trauma of a > > stick. > > Some people keep saying this but fail to give viable > examples. > > > > By way of comparison, other styles do not > emphasise the same body > > mechanics or targets. In Serrada we often hit the > hip bone or the > > elbow or wrist, Kalis Ilustrisimo will cut > diagonally upward across > > the torso, following the line of the rib, > avoiding bones. > > ???? I don't know who you trained with or who showed > you this, but this > is crap. The hip bone and elbow are not targets. > The target for the > side of the torso(strikes 3 and 4) is between the > bottom of the rib cage > and the top of the hip bone. The target on the > weapon hand is between > the forearm and the end of the hand. The wrist, > however, is a very good > target. Especially with a knife or sword. > > > It seems that to me that most people take it as a > matter of honour > > that their system works with/against blades. If > we try to inject a > > little objectivity however, how likely are we to > every be in a sword > > fight? Stick work has always seemed far more > practical to me and > > Serrada has always impressed me far more than > other systems in this > > regard. > > > > Jon > > Actually I am starting to take this as a litmus test > to see who knows > what the hell they are talking about when it comes > to Serrada. And in > all actuality, you are more likely to be in a knife > fight than in a > stick fight. Think about it. How often do you go > out with your stick > strapped to your side? How about a knife in your > pocket? > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: lakanmdb@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:15:08 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: sword vs stick To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. White To obtain this book you can try variable sources. I got mine through Kris Cutlery, check out there website. Also Bahalana, which is a site dedicated to the teachings of the late GM Giron. Also just type in Leo Giron, or Tony Somera this to could provide you with proper links to obtain the book. The book is very raw, and an excellent read, the accounts are vivid and it flows in and out of excitement. Good luck in your search. Mike B. PTK-SATX --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristine Strasburger To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] empty handed serrada Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Gints wrote: >>>In all actuality, I believe that unarmed vs. unarmed would be the most likely, followed by weapon vs. unarmed. In my casual observations, I don't hear a lot of Serrada players talking about or training the latter. I agree with training for what is practical in our day.<<< In the Inayan school, we train very heavily in unarmed against weapons (of all kinds), and do this training against both single and multiple opponents. Serrada is our primary foundation, and it works most excellently whether one has a weapon or does not. Kristine Strasburger __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:41:20 -0700 From: serrada@lvcm.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Targets,etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net DW wrote: > I have been taught that the angles do not represent specific targets as much > as they train the delivery of the strike. For example, an angle 1 standing > up is delivered along the same trajectory as angle 1 kneeling, squatting , > on your back, etc., Whether the weapon you swing is a stick, knife, empty > Hand, bottle,sword, dead cat, etc. the target will change depending on your > spacial relationship to your opponant. angle one might be the arm, shouler, > knee , thigh, chest(if he faces you with his side.)or neck(my favorite). > this "aliveness" is one of my favorite things about the FMA. Well, yes and no. True the #1 strike can be delivered to the arm, leg,etc. But, the actual angle target zones are the best targets for two people facing off. They teach you the most effective areas for the weapon you are using(sword,stick,etc.). Now defensively, it really doesn't matter what's being thrown as much as where it's being thrown. I like to think of it more like zones or sectors. Take an overhand strike(#1 strike) for example. Looking directly at someone, it starts at the 12 o'clock position(top of the head). All the way to about the 2 o'clock position, this is the angle one zone. A strike thrown anywhere in between can be countered with a #1 counter. As the strike moves more to a sidearm delivery(2-3 o'clock), the counters for #1 and #3 overlap. Some of the #1 counters are still effective and others are not. 2-4 o'clock would be the angle #3 zone. There is another overlap around 4 o'clock for angles #3 and #11. Then 4-6 o'clock is angle #11. Gints wrote: > The elbow is also a fine target. I have quite a bit of rattan sparring > video footage with matches ending or severaly disrupted after a shot to the > elbow. Admittedly, nearly all of the shots were at a Serrada #1 level > rather than #3. I'm not saying that you can't hit the elbow. You take what you can get. But, none of the Serrada basic counters target the elbow specifically. > In all actuality, I believe that unarmed vs. unarmed would be the most > likely, followed by weapon vs. unarmed. I don't think anyone here will argue this. The point was directed to Jon who said he didn't believe that a sword fight would be that common and that he found the stick to be more practical. > In my casual observations, > I don't hear a lot of Serrada players talking about or training the latter. > I agree with training for what is practical in our day. I would say that the biggest reason is that this area of training falls under the advanced curriculum. A lot of people know some of the basic empty-hand techniques. But as far as more advanced stuff, there is still not a lot of people that care to train that long. As far as your last comment, the structure is laid out that way on purpose. You first learn basic footwork, posture, and balance. From then you learn the actual angles and the counters for these angles. This whole time you are learning stick/sword techniques, you are also learning basic empty-hand techniques, most people just don't realize it until they are shown. By the time you get to the empty-hand training, you already have a strong foundation to build on. This order of progression is for good reasons. Jim --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 01:06:24 -0400 From: Steve Klement To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Sticks, swords - tools Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net - Any novice can bruise you with a sword. It takes a player to cut you up with a stick. - It's all about who is using the weapon for the most part (imo). I like what Mr. David Whitley ends his post with below... -- Steve Klement Inayan Masirib Guro www.inayaneskrima.com klement@inayaneskrima.com Inayan Systems International > simple, direct, efficient. > I am the weapon. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest