Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:01:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #150 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. The Edge 2003 - Knife & Stick Championships (LARRY ST. CLAIR) 2. Re: Hipbone connected to the elbow bone (gints@att.net) 3. RE:Injuries (Steve VanHarn) 4. RE: Re: Hipbone connected to the elbow bone (Mike Casto) 5. Re: The Edge 2003 - Knife & Stick Championships (Ray Terry) 6. Crown of the Hip as Target (Bill Little) 7. Re: Re: the roots of Serrada training (serrada@lvcm.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "LARRY ST. CLAIR" To: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:43:03 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] The Edge 2003 - Knife & Stick Championships Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Center of Martial Arts presents The Edge 2003 - Knife & Stick Championships Saturday, May 31st, 2003 Austin, Texas Come test your skills in the best Kali event ever hosted. We are offering 6 different divisions for all fighters. Each division offers 1st-3rd places with rules that will accommodate everyone¹s skill levels. There will also be two National Title belts on the line for both first place winners in the main Knife and Stick divisions. All of this combined with a great atmosphere and good competition will create the best ever event to help promote and spread the art of Kali. On top of this we will keep track of everyone¹s record and allow them to work their way up to compete for the title belts in future events. Whether you want to compete or just watch, come be a part of this historic event. Please contact Larry St. Clair or Leslie Buck at 512.339.8264 or www.centerofmartialarts.com for more information on tickets, times, rules and lodging. Location and times to be announced Friday, April 18th, 2003. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: gints@att.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:16:25 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Hipbone connected to the elbow bone Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Q wrote: > percentage shot. The 3-4 line is a "weedwacker". While it can certanly be > telling especially at head level which few people throw, below the pectorals > it is best used to blow away obstructions such as limbs so that the head shot > can be opened up. As to stick 3-4 vs. blade 3-4 the blade is obviously > targeted above the hip and below the ribs, or at big hunks of meat like a > thigh...but that is another discussion. With a stick, and the exception of > the rib cage, hitting any thin skin over a bone is very painful and highly > effective for a follow-up progressive indirect attack. "Nipple shots" to the pec area seem to disrupt fighting, in my experience. A nipple may seem like a small target, but the entire area is laden with nerves. This is obviously a greater issue for females. I'll stop before this gets even more fun. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Steve VanHarn" To: "Eskrima Digest" Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:22:20 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] RE:Injuries Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net While we're on the topic of injuries, anyone have/experienced problems with cysts developing in the wrists? I have one wrapped around the radial artery. Required knocking me out to scrape it away 12 yrs ago. I'm told there's a 50% reoccurrence rate. Yeah, it came back within a year and I have managed it pretty well until recently. It has begun to swell up quite a bit of and on and has begun to really impact my practice. Invasive surgery turned out to be no picnic and I was wondering if anyone has had success with other alternatives. Also, I believe Crafty mentioned on forecasting the weather with old injuries. This cyst is far more accurate and a heck of a lot faster than my arthritis. Steve Van Harn Arnis Sikaran - Jornales System --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: Hipbone connected to the elbow bone Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:35:01 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've take a couple of nipple shots where the tip of the stick just zinged the nipple. OMG! I don't know if it would stop me in a fight ... but it sure brought me up short in friendly sparring. Mike -----Original Message----- From: gints@att.net [mailto:gints@att.net] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 3:16 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Hipbone connected to the elbow bone > Q wrote: > percentage shot. The 3-4 line is a "weedwacker". While it can certanly be > telling especially at head level which few people throw, below the pectorals > it is best used to blow away obstructions such as limbs so that the head shot > can be opened up. As to stick 3-4 vs. blade 3-4 the blade is obviously > targeted above the hip and below the ribs, or at big hunks of meat like a > thigh...but that is another discussion. With a stick, and the exception of > the rib cage, hitting any thin skin over a bone is very painful and highly > effective for a follow-up progressive indirect attack. "Nipple shots" to the pec area seem to disrupt fighting, in my experience. A nipple may seem like a small target, but the entire area is laden with nerves. This is obviously a greater issue for females. I'll stop before this gets even more fun. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Edge 2003 - Knife & Stick Championships To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Come test your skills in the best Kali event ever hosted. Have you actually attended ALL other past Kali events to be able to make that statement? :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Bill Little" To: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:02:25 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Crown of the Hip as Target Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Before Jim Hermann and Charley Hilton taught me how to use a baston in Houston, TX, I was a Sheriff's Deputy in Jefferson County, TX back in the early 1980's. One of the first targets that the more experienced LEO's taught me was to strike the crown of the hip with my flashlight or "slapper" when it came to that. With a rechargeable flashlight, it certainly was effective back then. I really can't comment about the elbow as I have never hit anyone "with intent" there. Respectfully, Bill Little --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:17:56 -0700 From: serrada@lvcm.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Re: the roots of Serrada training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think that there seems to be some confusion here to what I am trying to convey. The initial discussion was whether Serrada is a stick or sword based art. That's where this whole idea about hips and elbows came from. I never said that you can't hit the hip or elbow. I did say that nowhere in the Serrada curriculum, is the elbow or hipbone an actual target for the stick/sword. There is a reason for this. That is because Serrada is a sword/blade based art. These are not good targets for a sword. As for the elbow being a target otherwise; If the other person is well trained in Serrada, then the elbow is rarely seen as a target. Why? Because one of the distinctive traits of Serrada is that the elbows are kept close in to the body. This also protects the hip bone because either your check-hand or weapon hand is also close by. Also, more often than not, if you were able to hit the elbow, you could have hit the head. But if it's there and you have no other vital targets, by all means hit it. > Hi Jim, > Sorry, but I beg to differ. I studied Inayan Serrada, and remain a > practitioner of this art after 25 years. I began my studies in 1978, under > Garry Bowlds, an Inayan Guro. I continued over the years under 3 more of > Suro Mike's Guros, and to this day consider Rob McDonald to be my teacher. I > met Suro Mike on a few occasions, trained with him, (Suro remained close to > Angel Cabales their whole lives, BTW), and I can say with no hesitation that > the elbow and hip were emphasized as viable targets from the very beginning > of my training. You are right that no Serrada counters have the elbow and > hip as targets, but dude, there is soooooo much more to the art than the > counters. You have to start thinking outside of just the counters. The > counters are the beginning, the root, but you are expected to grow beyond > your basics. Well I am sorry ,but they are not emphasized in Serrada. There is a distinct difference in intended targets and targets of opportunity, the latter of which I believe that the elbow and hip fall under(when using a stick). The emphasized targets in Serrada are the weapon arm/hand and the head. With the counters, I suspect you are talking about doing the whole counter? The counters do form the basis for which everything else is learned. They basic counters are also very effective just by themselves. They are also called basic counters because they are just that, they are basic. But, the rest of the art(Advanced and Master) is still based on these basic techniques. > If I am under attack, I'm going to hit first. If the > elbow is sticking out there, I'm gonna whack it. If the hip (pelvic bone) is > open, I'm gonna whack it. I've been hit there, I KNOW it hurts to beat the > band. What I'm not going to do is wait for the first blow to come, and try > to apply a counter. This is odd, because there is an inherent advantage in waiting for the other person to make the first move. > Counter moves are for surprise attacks; if a guy is > bearing down on you with (as Mike Tyson so aptly states) "bad intentions," I > am sure as hell not going to wait and try to apply a counter, if angling away > and whacking the daylights out of any available target will work. Why even learn the counters then if you aren't going to use them? Actually, angling away is still considered a counter. > You say that accuracy is why we train to hit the arm, hand, etc., in the > counters. True, and I train my students exactly as I was taught, to train > the counters on the arm. BUT, look at the counter and ask yourself, will an > attacker stand there with his arm out after throwing a strike at you? Will > that target remain available, or will he retract and hit again? Actually this is a common question from people in class. Then GM Cabales will proceed to do a complete counter while they try and hit him and pull back. Just so this is clear, in doing the counter you don't have to complete it all the way through to the lock position. If a strike is committed, there is enough time to do the block and at least the first strike if not the whole counter. If the strike is not committed, it is a pick. Now one thing that you should never do is commit to a strike and then retract. This will always leave you wide open. If it is a pick or retracted and re-thrown, then just flow into it. Example: You throw a one. I do a roof block. If it is a committed one I will be able to do at least the underhand strike if not the overhand strike. Remember my check-hand is guiding your weapon arm from the top. If for some reason you release before the underhand, if my weapon is still high I go to your head, low I stab you in the stomach. If it's a pick and you release to an abaniko on the left side of my head, I do an inside block. If you pick and release down to a three, i do a two-step pass. The possibilities are endless, and this is just using basic counters(picking is not basic though). > Then why > train on the arm? There are very valid reasons for this, do you know what > they are? This again was a part of my training from the beginning, and the > reasons told to us made perfect sense. You tell me what you think the > reasons are. There are a number of reasons for training on the arm. 1) This is where you want to hit. If you disable the weapon arm, you disable the weapon. 2) In CA there are liability issues about training weapon strikes to the head. 3) Weapon awareness. If you know where the arm is, you also know where the weapon is(check-hand is also used for this purpose). 4) It gives you a still target to practice your counter on. > One last thing...I'd really like to know who you study Serrada with, just out > of curiosity. I was taught mostly by my wife(Master T. Cabales) and her father(GM Vincent Cabales). I was also taught by my brother-in-law(Master Vincent Cabales Jr.)and Master Stanley Wells. Jim --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest