Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:04:01 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #151 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: elbow shots (Chad Getz) 2. new CSE Masters ? (Ray Terry) 3. Elbows and cysts (Marc Denny) 4. Re: funny serrada thread (Q) 5. know your students (rob mulligan) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 19:56:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Chad Getz To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: elbow shots Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >The elbow is also a fine target. I have quite a bit of rattan sparring >video footage with matches ending or severaly disrupted after a shot to >the >elbow. Admittedly, nearly all of the shots were at a Serrada #1 level >rather than #3. I agree with that Gints. I have some scenes the same, and once experienced it as well. Really blurrs the nerve. Gints, are you guys making it to Hawaii for the Hawaiian Gathering? ;) ~Chad Getz --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] new CSE Masters ? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I was taught mostly by my wife(Master T. Cabales) and her father(GM > Vincent Cabales). I was also taught by my brother-in-law(Master Vincent > Cabales Jr.)and Master Stanley Wells. Has Gm Vincent now promoted others to the CSE Master level? Last time I asked him about this (awhile back now) he had not promoted anyone to Master of CSE. Vincent was trying to obtain the Master cert layout from my late instructor (Mike Inay) as Suro Inay had created the cert design for Gm Angel, as well as the concepts for the CSE basic/advanced/master curriculum. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:30:50 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Elbows and cysts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: 1) I forget who, but someone asked about a wrenched elbow. Someone else logically said-- see a doctor. Good advice that , , , yet , , , some of the least practical advice I've gotten over the years has been from doctors --even more so from non-doctors it must be said. I guess that means most advice is not very good! This may include mine. That said, and speaking merely as a deranged layman, I noticed that Hilot healer Sam Tendencia had excellent results on a serious knee injury of mine (a weird silat fall-- but I repeat myself-- silat falls ARE weird) by going DEEP into my thigh and foreleg. I would look to the same principle here- perhaps with special attention paid to the brachio radialis (sp?) as well as trace it up through the shoulder (especially the four muscles of the rotator cuff) all the way to the spine AND DO THE SAME THING ON THE OTHER ARM TOO even though it is not injured. If you have access to a good Chinese doctor, pins and herbs should noticeably help the healing process. 2) Still speaking as a deranged layman (and I'm never anything else) concerning the question about a cyst in the wrist: As I have had occasion to mention concerning cyst like injuries due to stick hits to the hand, , , ,umm , , , oy vey, the term is slipping my mind , , , its a sonic vibration thing that most good chiropractors have , , , seems to work pretty well. It may well be worth a try in your case. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:49:32 -0700 (GMT) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: funny serrada thread Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jim this is a discussion not a put down. Enlighten me. Jim writes: " The initial discussion was whether Serrada is a stick or sword based art. ...that nowhere in the Serrada curriculum, is the elbow or hipbone an actual target for the stick/sword. There is a reason for this. That is because Serrada is a sword/blade based art. These are not good targets for a sword." I have had limited exposure to Serrada taught to me as Cabales Serrada, but if Serrada is a sword art then why do they use a short thin wimpy little stick that just can't represent any sword I have ever seen? I'm not putting anyone down I just don't understand it. I respect and can generate significant power with a little stick but I would think you would represent a blade with something that at least would have a length and weight of a blade. "As for the elbow being a target otherwise; If the other person is well trained in Serrada, then the elbow is rarely seen as a target. Why? Because one of the distinctive traits of Serrada is that the elbows are kept close in to the body. This also protects the hip bone because either your check-hand or weapon hand is also close by. " I believe that the closeness of limb in a compact body form is not for protection. It is the way that Serrada players begin to load and generate power from their base. The tightness with the gravity drop in the footwork help to generate speed and thus momentum for the light stick. The closeness and protection are side-effects of a Serrada "on-guard" position. Furthermore, to hit the Serrada elbow disrupts the powerbase in a progressive attack. If however, you believe in one strike one kill then the elbow is never a target. <> Actually with a blade you can be sloppy and hit about anything and do damage more so than a well placed stick hit. So it really does not matter what you hit. Targets are ones of opertunity. You take what is given not seek what is not there. Take a lesson from BJJ who capitalize on mistakes rather than tire themselves out seeking a particular submission. Don't forget the blade can crack and break bone too so you can't always think of the clean slice. In fact the bone break or crush from a blade may even offer greater shock to the system which may end a confrontation. <> In all martial arts the weapon is not the weapon the person is the weapon. The stick hand is not the dangerous hand the check hand is the dangerous hand. Liability issues are not significant. There is a huge difference between telling students to hit the head in this controlled friendly venue and going out an hit the head of people you don't like. Even with that I assume you are teaching adults who can make up their own mind about what is appropriote. For the last 30 years we have been hitting the head and target it. This is a martial art not a legal one. Really Escrima in America is all sport which represents something martial just like TKD. Most use head gear so you can hit the head...no big deal. 99% of people here will never use it and about as many really can't use it but think they can. That is what the Dog Brothers have tried to do all of their existance to put people in realish contact situations to take the "freeze" out. How many train to that level? Even Dog Brother style venues are not real and a significant number of those people will probably freeze too. The statement"...Be friends at the end of the day..." takes the fight out and puts the sport in. We are not fighters. We are mostly dock workers, engineers etc. The arm target is more a target of convenience and helps to train understanding and body mechanics. All targets are those of opertunity not intention, blending and moving in and out of the fighting continuim to either go to the head of the snake or work in and defang. Respectfully, carl Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. 4305 Torrance Blvd., Suite 102 Torrance, Ca. 90503 310-371-2337 603-710-6393fax Cosmetic General Dentistry --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: panguro3@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:46:22 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] know your students Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Below is a story today in   the New York Daily News. An FMA student (so they say) was involved in a bar brawl and apparently stabbed the bouncer in the groin, killing him. This is a terrible and sad story, but it must  remind us of how REALLY deadly an art it is that we do. We talk a lot about "live" knives, "cuts" and "slashes" or "extreme"  training, but these are REAL warrior techniques that are meant to help us survive life and death situations. It's NOT a game. It's also a reminder that the Guro's need to be especially diligent and KNOW our students. This student was drunk, in a bar, AND carrying his knife. Have any of us, or our students, ever been guilty of something like this? It's something to consider very seriously, as it can have dire consequences and impact countless lives. Ok, That's it. No more preaching. Just be careful in what you do and who you teach.                                                                     Guro Rob Mulligan                                                                                                 Queens, NY   New club slay suspect   Martial arts ace tried suicide after fatal fight   By BARBARA ROSS, MICHELE McPHEE and GREG GITTRICH DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS     Ching Chan, who cops said took part in club brawl that ended in bouncer's death Sunday, leaves Suffolk St. apartment yesterday. He was released from custody Tuesday.    Cops are close to arresting a new suspect — a martial arts expert — in the fatal stabbing of an East Village bouncer who died enforcing the city's smoking ban, sources said yesterday. The suspect, who is a master of a vicious Filipino knife-fighting technique, attempted to kill himself after learning that the bouncer died Sunday, law enforcement sources told the Daily News. The 31-year-old left a note to his parents confessing to the killing and saying he was drunk at the time, sources said. "I was just trying to help out my friends," the note said, according to the sources. The alleged killer is a pal of the Chinese brothers who were initially arrested in the slaying, but then  released. A law enforcement source said, "He was trained by martial arts experts to stab someone in one spot to kill." The brothers are also schooled in the warrior art of Eskrima, in which knives are a key component, sources said. But the new suspect is believed to be the killer, and investigators were seeking search warrants last night to obtain more evidence, a source said. They were also looking to talk to his martial arts teacher. Authorities told The News that the suspect was among 19 friends celebrating a birthday early Sunday at Guernica, a bar on Avenue B. Dad ran Chinatown gang The party included the children of notorious Chinatown gang leader Wing Yeung Chan. The siblings — Ching Chan, 31, a medical student; Jonathan Chan, 29, a Wall St. banker, and Alice Ling Chan, 33, a bookkeeper — were arrested after the fatal stabbing but set free because of a lack of evidence. Witnesses said members of the Chans' party repeatedly lit cigarettes inside the bar's downstairs club in violation of the city smoking ban. Several warnings from a deejay and a bouncer were ignored. So Dana Blake, 32, the bar's security chief and an imposing presence at 6-feet-5, 320 pounds, approached the group. When Blake attempted to remove Jonathan Chan from the bar, Chan's siblings and the knife-fighting ace pounced, law enforcement sources said. While the Chans were involved in the bloody scrum, sources said, it's now believed that the Eskrima expert was the one who plunged a knife into Blake's groin. Blake, who lived in Astoria, Queens, died 11 hours after the attack despite surgeons' efforts to save his life. No weapon was found. Investigators believe the suspect took the knife with him and rushed off to clean his blood-soaked clothing. He has been held in a psychiatric hospital since his suicide attempt, sources said. Ivan Fisher, an attorney for the Chan brothers, has said his clients did not stab Blake. The new details emerged as friends and relatives of Blake gathered for his wake in Queens. A chrome Cadillac hood ornament was attached to the outside of Blake's wooden coffin. "That's all he wanted was a Caddy," said St. Eyes Stroud, 27, a bouncer at Guernica. While greeting friends of his slain brother, the Rev. Anthony Blake said, "We want justice." Yesterday, Mayor Bloomberg called the Rev. Blake to express his condolences. Friends of Blake have blamed his death on Bloomberg's smoking ban. At Guernica last night, more than 100 people showed up at a benefit to help Blake's family pay for the funeral. Club employees said they accepted at least $3,000 in donations. With Nicole Bode and David Saltonstall   Originally published on April 18, 2003                            Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest