Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 03:01:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #160 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Serrada blades/sticks (length) (Ray Terry) 2. Re:Calling all women of stamina (Bill Lowery) 3. The term Serrada... (Mark Harrell) 4. Re: NYC incident (barry meadows) 5. you can't have it both ways (Q) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Serrada blades/sticks (length) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > FWIW, we also train regularly with the Laring which is around 34"-36" (I > never bothered to measure it). Good info. Thanks. What shape blade does a laring have? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Subject: Re:[Eskrima] Calling all women of stamina Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:17:54 +0100 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At least he WILL be able to beat them all off with a stick ;-) Bill --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Mark Harrell" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:32:16 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] The term Serrada... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greeting Jim, Yes you do have the right to complain about everything and apparently you exercise your right every chance you get. It is a shame that your mind is so closed... We both have the right to speak our minds and even to disagree with each other... isn't America GREAT! : ) FACT: The term Serrada was not "created" or "coined" by the late Grandmaster Angel. It was adopted by him to define his brand or personal expression of Escrima. The "Cabales Serrada Escrima" system and curriculum was created by the late Grandmaster Angel Cabales to define his life's work and legacy. On that point I know that we can agree. : ) Do some research on the term and its male counterpart term and their general use in the Philippines and elsewhere. Interesting stuff. Jim Wrote: >>Actually one of the biggest reasons for not bringing the other groups >>together is because of attitudes of people like you. The attitude >>of "I >>have a basic or advanced degree(sometimes even no degree), so >>I obviously know better than everyone else." As for the Cabales Serrada >>System not being the only way, prove it! It might >>not be the "Ten >>Commandments of Escrima," but it is the "Ten >>Commandments of Serrada." Well Jim all I say in response to your angry statement and obvious threat directed towards me is that your attitude and closed mind are two of the main reasons why people turn their backs on Cabales Serrada Escrima. What a shame... I am sorry that we disagree on a few things but such is the nature of life and I am just fine with that. I respect your right to express yourself but I also express my right to respectfully disagree with your point of view and opinions with regards to Serrada Eskrima. I stand behind and in front of all of my stated views in my previous post. I choose not to continue this debate with you any further in this public format because I think we have both made our points and we do not agree. That signals an end to debate and the beginning of disagreement in my view. Please let me suggest that you and I spare everyone else on this Eskrima-Digest the pain and suffering of our continued disagreement. If you feel that you must continue in this then contact me privately out of respect to the many here who don't care to read our increasingly polarized viewpoints. Viewpoints that really have little to NO VALUE in the general landscape of things anyways. Peace be with you, Mark Harrell ______________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:11:55 -0700 From: Jim @ serrada@lvcm.com Subject: The term Serrada... Mark wrote: >Subject: Serrada > >This topic or debate is really a matter of your own personal preference, >your instructor's personal preference, or perhaps even a situational >opportunity as you mentioned. > >You do mention that "...that nowhere in the Serrada curriculum, >is the elbow or hipbone an actual target for the stick/sword"... > >First of all there is more than just one Serrada Escrima curriculum in the >world. The "Cabales Serrada Escrima" curriculum is not the >only one... That is true whether or not you choose to accept that >fact. Just two of several that come to mind are the "Inayan Serrada >Eskrima" and the "Tacosa Serrada Eskrima" curriculums. How can you >speak for these other curriculums??? >>Jim Wrote: >>Wow, who pissed in your cheerios? First, there is only one Serrada >>curriculum. If someone strays from the basic techniques or changes them, >>it is no longer Serrada and should not be called so. Serrada isn't the >>generic term, escrima is. Angel coined this term to >>describe his style. >> He then passed HIS style on to HIS son. >>I can't speak for the respective systems, but as far as I know the >>two >>that you mentioned still teach the same basic techniques that >>Angel >>taught. Kim further affirmed this by stating neither was a >>target in >>the counter system(I think that he studied both). His view >>is that they >>are viable targets and mine is that they can be targets, >>but that I am >>not specifically looking for them. Also, that they are >>not targets in >>the Serrada counter system(We agree on this last part). Mark Wrote: >Each of these are valid and real Serrada curriculums but they are not >necessarily the "Cabales Serrada Escrima" curriculum as it stands today >under the direction of Grandmaster Vincent Cabales of the "Cabales Serrada >Escrima system". Jim Wrote: >>And if they all teach the same things that Angel taught, then it is still >>the same. It is still "Cabales Serrada Escrima." GM Vincent hasn't >>changed anything. He still teaches the same as he was taught. Mark Wrote: >I guess my point is that you can only speak about what you have learned >from your particular experience with the "Cabales Serrada Escrima" >curriculum and not for the entire Serrada community at large. There is more >than one point view within the Serrada community > and that is one of the >reasons why Grandmaster Vincent Cabales has found it impossible to bring >together the various Serrada groups. Each group has their own viewpoint of >what they learned and where . >they want to grow. The "Cabales Serrada Escrima" curriculum is very >good but it is not the only way nor is it the "Ten Commandments of Escrima" >put forth by some GOD like authority. Jim Wrote: >>Actually one of the biggest reasons for not bringing the other groups >>together is because of attitudes of people like you. The attitude >>of "I >>have a basic or advanced degree(sometimes even no degree), so >>I obviously know better than everyone else." As for the Cabales Serrada >>System not being the only way, prove it! It might >>not be the "Ten >>Commandments of Escrima," but it is the "Ten >>Commandments of Serrada." Mark Wrote: >There is plenty of room for every point of view as long as someone doesn't >decide that they are the GOD like authority. Jim Wrote: >>This is a typical liberal argument; I have the right to complain >>about >>everything, but no one has the right to tell me that I am wrong. >>Jim _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "barry meadows" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] NYC incident Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 02:00:27 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve, I think you misunderstood my referance to the Hunted.My point had little to do with the actual movie or Escrima techniques and a lot to do with the fact that you never know what is going on in anothers mind/reality.To say that it has no place in a dissusion of this type is a leep. Barry Meadows Sweat More Bleed Less >From: "Steven Lefebvre" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] NYC incident >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:14:25 +0000 > >Hello, > >First: No Instructor of any martial arts has any real or true control over >a student’s actions. We may insistently remind them about the legal >ramifications on Lethal Use of force, and the responsibility that they have >as practitioners of the Martial arts. But, it is up to the student’s >judgment as to when they decide to defend themselves and with how much >force. Drinking does not help this matter at all as the impairment of >judgment is significantly impacted. This is no different than a person who >learns to drive, yet once getting their license starts to drink and becomes >a menace on the road. Was the driving instructor at fault for teaching him? >(great post by Steve Lamade!) > >In regards to the the reference to the “Hunted” this has no place in a >discussion of this type. Even the material that was contained in the movie >did not contain a perineum thrust. >Please don't assume a movie had anything to do with an act of an individual >in that case. > >I have also shared these posts with the Sayoc Public forum, as not everyone >has access to Eskrima Digest. > >Gumagalang >Guro Steve L. >www.Bujinkandojo.net >www.Sayoc.com > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:59:02 -0700 (GMT) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] you can't have it both ways Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think Jim wrote: <> With no disrespect intended this is an extremely shortsighted reply. I agree that you must seek the target that presents the most opertunity. And While we would all like to end our contests with a single angular attack often, and especially with higher level opponants, the progressive indirect attack is a common pathway to winning. That may mean a path which includes the bigtoe. How many remember the Inosanto four count with the big toe as a target? (hortizontal backhand, vertical to bigtoe, vertical to chin, hortizontal backhand). Hey for all I know it could have been GM Angel's distilled via Guro Dan. I never had the pleasure of meeting Agel Then you say: <. The reason not being the obvious strength, etc., but you will loose the distancing benefit that the check-hand provides. As the stick/sword becomes longer, it becomes harder to hit with the top quarter of the stick/sword and still be in close enough to utilize the check-hand.>> Well you can't have it both ways. Check hand use is part of a progresive attack or riposte. If you bypass the bigtoe progression then you should bypass the check-hand and just hit me on the head. Also, I disagree on your length assessment to some degree. It is definately easier to put the check hand in with a stick relative your comfort zone typically about 2 feet. However, Who says you have to hit with the top quarter? Many use the punyo and this is stick length independant and ones uses the check hand with it. Many use the quarter right above the hand in a stacato movement that looks Balinawalkish or even wing chunish. I do not know the FMA name for this and again the check hand is in play. Finally, once the dagger is put in the check hand which is the ultimate expression of the check hand, the sword can be lengthened about another foot and maintain the short stick to check-hand relative distance. Regards, Carl Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. 4305 Torrance Blvd., Suite 102 Torrance, Ca. 90503 310-371-2337 603-710-6393fax Cosmetic General Dentistry --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest