Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:31:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #162 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: re: guro steve lamade & the nyc murder (Ld470@aol.com) 2. Targets (was elbows and hips) (Todd Ellner) 3. Siniwali / Blade lenght in PI?? (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. krabi krabong (GioSEAMA@aol.com) 5. leading with the stick, or not? (Paul Woodruff) 6. Drinking while carrying a knife & carrying in a bar (McDonald, Jon) 7. Re: leading with the stick, or not? (Ray Terry) 8. http://martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ld470@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:02:32 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: guro steve lamade & the nyc murder To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all, Thank you Guro Rob, I agree. This individual made many decisions, his own decisions, his own CHOICES. Had he not been drunk he probably would have opted for other CHOICES. He may not have gotten involved in the fight to begin with. He may not have withdrawn his weapon, and most importantly, he may not have stabbed and killed the another man. We as martial artists do have a responsibility to carry ourselves in scuh a way as to not even be given such "opportunities" to cause such damage to another human being that may result in their death. As a trained martial artist with fighting skills I know what I am capable of and know that I may need to call on my skills if neccessary. I'm confident of my skills and I see no need to draw my weapon( i do carry a folder), unless I were confronted with a life or death situation. Being a 5'5" 140 lb musician, I've been in plenty of fights in clubs with guys nearly twice my size and to date I have not stabbed anyone, and do not foresee a time where I would. It seems that FMA has been getting some negative attention due to this incident, which is a shame. There are far more responsible martial artists amongst us than not. On a final note ; I learned the perineum " kill strike" from a Marine long before I learned it in a martial arts class. A lesson for us all to learn may be to avoid alcohol and fights altogether! Thanks, Dave --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:37:06 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Todd Ellner" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Targets (was elbows and hips) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A lot of this hinges on just what your weapon is. Also how much damage you can do to the target. One correspondent made derisive noises about "hitting someone in the big toe while he's hitting them in the head. Well, yeah, it's not a good trade for most of us. But try to think ahead here. If you can get a clean hit to the foot that damages it you won't kill him right away. But in a fight with weapons if you lose mobility you are at a serious disadvantage. Hell, it's true for a fight without weapons. Lose a foot in a fight with knives or other blades and you're pretty close to packing it in. Elbows and hips likewise. Break an elbow and the arm's not much good. An arm is a hell of a thing to give up in a fight. Those of you who train with blades can tell us what a good slash to the inside of the elbow can do. Whacking someone on the side of the hip with a piece of bamboo probably won't hurt them badly. But there are a couple places on the front of the pelvis that my first Silat guru calls the "fold up like a burrito" spots. Not painful, but the body bends forwards for a good long moment. Would you pass up an opportunity like that? --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:14:36 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Siniwali / Blade lenght in PI?? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve Van Wrote: > ("siniwali" -- did I use this right GP Abon?) This is correct, this what the spelling I used to see to all of the Visayan instructor. But if you would learn it from the Tagalog instructor, this is would be "Sinawali" its means criss cross pattern to the weaving format of the bamboo mat used for walling and ceiling for our native houses. The different is only the "i" and "a" in between (n) and (w) read like this Sini or Sina. In regards of length of blades we have in the Philippines, its depend to the usage, of the blades if is used to chopped some heavy wood, need a heavy blades, the lighter the job is the longer the blade is, because if is only used for grass bananas the blade is thinner and longer than the blades used to the heavy duty chopping. The same thing in kitchen knife the Clever is shorter but heavier knife that the Chef knife. Well, "Laring" is commonly seen between 24" up to 17" blades not including the handle of Pulu or Puluhan. Now its depend to the person how long your blade that you want to handle. In Bicol region and Tagalog region there's a blade called "dahon palay" meaning rice leaf shape blade, that length between 30" to 36" is quiet long but thin leaf shape like the rice leaf weight between 1 lb. to 1 1/4 lb. What I am saying is all blades that made in the Philippines is not fixed the length so we cant just depend on the length. Some Krises, barong, pinsawali, laring, janap, even kampilan not a fixed length, there some made longer than the others regardless of style. I have two identical Tagalog dahon buho (bamboo leaf shape blades), both in the different length, its is a personal preference. If I am going to used for Largo off-course the longer weapon have the advantage, but is you need to used to Serrada, Corto, Pikit meaning close range you need a a shorter version blade but has a little weight to compromised on the techniques applied on the closed confrontation and basically pointed for effective thrusting and stabbing techniques employed inside conrto range. I just want to share my . 02 cent on this thread. Salamat na muli (Thank's again), Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA E-mail: gatpuno@aol.com Website: garimot.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: GioSEAMA@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 01:45:18 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] krabi krabong Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just a few brief clarifications on the topic of Krabi Krabong: There are roofblocks in all the Krabi Krabong systems and with all the masters I trained with extensively in Thailand as well as with the weapons arts of Burma, Laos and Cambodia. The breath and scope of the footwork trained and utilized in each Krabi Krabong system and with each instructor is different. Some use alot with pivots and circles as well as zig zags as in the Attamat school. In the Buddhai Sawan method which is an offshoot of the main Ayutthaya school this will be best seen in the mai sawk work which is and can be implemented with the swords as well --especially brought to light in the combat drills. Vincent Giordano NYCA << For a quick look at some KK take a look at the clip on DBMA#5 with Ajarn Salty at http://www.dogbrothers.com/index1.htm The footage in the clip is single stick but it should give you a taste of the flavor. There is double stick taught in the video. IMHO there are important differences between the two. Amongst them are: KK has active kicking. For most FMA systems kicking is rare and low only. Mid and Hi kicks are considered quasi-suicidal. In KK they are SOP. In single stick fighting virtually every FMA fighter I have ever seen almost always keeps the same foot as the stick hand forward. The only exception that comes to mind was Tom Meadows. In KK single stick the "off lead" (e.g. a righty fighting with the stick in right hand and left foot forward) is quite common. One steps through-- either forwards or backwards. In double stick, in most FMA systems there is weaving ("siniwali" -- did I use this right GP Abon?) whereas in KK there is none. In most FMA systems there is a roof block, but not in KK. >> --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:54:56 -0230 From: "Paul Woodruff" To: Subject: [Eskrima] leading with the stick, or not? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re; Docfung's point about leading with stick hand. Points are well taken, but would you or anyone else on the list train LEOs any differently from those on this list. Those people that are well practised in the FMA may have reasons for leading with an empty hand or a stick hand, but if you were to train a LEO with little prior FMA experience and you know they will only recieve very limited training(and they may not practise as much as they should), would you train them to lead with their stick or not? Their time available for training will be limited, so which tactic would you try to impart? I've been moving in the last while, so excuse me if I have missed points already made. Paul --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "McDonald, Jon" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:56:59 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Drinking while carrying a knife & carrying in a bar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Reading about this NYC incident has gotten me thinking about those who carry knives on their person all the time (I don't, primarily because I am neither sufficiently skilled with one nor sufficiently knowledgeable about my state's laws concerning them). Do those of you who carry knives ever drink alcohol while carrying? I would assume that due to the relative size of and social meaning with carrying a firearm as opposed to carrying a knife one would be (purposely or inadvertantly) much more aware about what they consume when armed with a firearm as opposed to a blade. Also does carrying a knife cause you guys to avoid going to certain places the way carrying a firearm might? I know I've seen tons of people with folders in bars, but I would think that many people carrying firearms would avoid those types of places while armed (also, is it against the law, in certain states, to carry a firearm into a bar?). Bars and nightclubs seem to be the most likely area where adults find themselves engaged in fist-fights. Between the combination of increased likelihood for confrontation and the probable decreased view of legal justification for self-defense by a jury, the risk for bringing a firearm or a knife would be pretty high. If you chose not to bring those weapons into a bar, what do you do? Do you go to bars and nightclubs unarmed, or do you simply avoid those places all together? Just wondering about those issues. Thanks, Jon **************************************************************************** This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] leading with the stick, or not? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Points are well taken, but would you or anyone else on the list train > LEOs any differently from those on this list. Those people that are > well practised in the FMA may have reasons for leading with an empty > hand or a stick hand, but if you were to train a LEO with little prior > FMA experience and you know they will only recieve very limited > training(and they may not practise as much as they should), would you > train them to lead with their stick or not? Their time available for > training will be limited, so which tactic would you try to impart? I teach LEOs to keep the stick to the rear. Most will use their baton in the strong/dominate hand, which will be the same side as their sidearm is holstered. Best to keep that side as far removed from the attacker as possible. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] http://martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A few have asked what some of these swords look like that we've been talking about. Part of my collection is viewable at: http://martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest