Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:48:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #163 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. stick in rear (Q) 2. Re: Knives and drinking (Kel620@aol.com) 3. Re: Re: Knives and drinking (Ld470@aol.com) 4. Whoops! (Marc Denny) 5. Fixing teeth (Ray Terry) 6. leading with the stick, or not? (Paul Woodruff) 7. Sinawali, Laring (Steve VanHarn) 8. Giron Book (Tom Skoglind) 9. RE: leading with the stick, or not? (Mike Casto) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:27:46 -0700 (GMT) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] stick in rear Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Paul wrote: Re; Docfung's point about leading with stick hand. Points are well taken, but would you or anyone else on the list train LEOs any differently from those on this list. Those people that are well practised in the FMA may have reasons for leading with an empty hand or a stick hand, but if you were to train a LEO with little priorFMA experience" Paul, first I am not an instructor I fix teeth. However, I do have an opinion...no surprise to people on this list. I would say you would teach a firearmed LEO to have the gun side to the rear and never closer than facing flat (like a chi sau position). This has many safety advantages and in the final death grasp of the perp toward an LEO's sidearm the LEO can use the livehand to shoulder stop a perp while abandoning his stick for his sidearm and or shielding the perps #1 since perp now has the LEO's stick. That assumes the classic two righthanders with gun on the right side both right hand dominant. Martial experiance is a chessgame and you have to think beyond the obvious tools at hand even when there is little training time. LEO's may not have time to learn to play this chess but there are others who have though about it and teach them like robots to do things like not positioning the gun hip toward the perp.. If you are teaching LEO's you have to teach in the context of their environment...environmental training! The biggest mistake I have seen done by teachers of LEO's is to teach their craft as a separate martial experience without regard to the conditions under which the craft may be used. LEO's have all kinds of problems like no tennis shoes, 40 lbs of gear, bullet proof vest with edges like hand holds and all kinds of things hanging off to get trapped. Regards, Carl Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. 4305 Torrance Blvd., Suite 102 Torrance, Ca. 90503 310-371-2337 603-710-6393fax Cosmetic General Dentistry --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:20:51 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Knives and drinking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Most, if not all, nightclubs in NYC will either have bouncers frisk you or use metal detectors before you are allowed to enter. If you are going to a club, leave the blade at home. I've gotten into one with a kubotan, but that was because the bouncer did a very bad job of frisking me. K. Williams In a message dated 4/24/2003 7:22:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Bars and nightclubs seem > to be the most likely area where adults find themselves engaged in > fist-fights. Between the combination of increased likelihood for > confrontation and the probable decreased view of legal justification for > self-defense by a jury, the risk for bringing a firearm or a knife would be > pretty high. If you chose not to bring those weapons into a bar, what do > you do? Do you go to bars and nightclubs unarmed, or do you simply avoid > those places all together? > > Just wondering about those issues. > > Thanks, > > Jon --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ld470@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:43:13 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Knives and drinking To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I conceal my folder very well when frisked at a club. You never know what may go down at an NYC club or bar , so it's better to be safe than sorry . Dave --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:27:00 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Whoops! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Vinnie G. wrote: > Just a few brief clarifications on the topic of Krabi Krabong: > > There are roofblocks in all the Krabi Krabong systems and with all the > masters I trained with extensively in Thailand as well as with the weapons > arts of Burma, Laos and Cambodia. > > The breath and scope of the footwork trained and utilized in each Krabi > Krabong system and with each instructor is different. Some use alot with > pivots and circles as well as zig zags as in the Attamat school. In the > Buddhai Sawan method which is an offshoot of the main Ayutthaya school this > will be best seen in the mai sawk work which is and can be implemented with > the swords as well --especially brought to light in the combat drills. > > Vincent Giordano > NYCA Vinnie is quite right about the roof block. As a matter of fact I had an exciting fight with KK man Mike DeLio and he used a roof block in my fight and others. Whoops! I stand corrected. Maybe Vinnie could flesh out more about the different systems? Crafty --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Fixing teeth Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Paul, first I am not an instructor I fix teeth. > [snip] > > Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. > [snip] > Cosmetic General Dentistry So Doc... Is this the real reason you stay in touch with Crafty -n- crew? To fix all those broken teeth? :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:16:35 -0230 From: "Paul Woodruff" To: Subject: [Eskrima] leading with the stick, or not? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray, Excellent point in response to my post, however I now realize that I didn't clarify my question, which is really two fold. The weapon side certainly needs to be set back from the confrontation for several reasons, but the debate I am having at work is in teaching this 'which hand do you lead with, weapon or empty?' to Court Officers, who aren't armed with firearms in this jurisdiction. The only equipment they carry on their belt is an expandable baton and pepper sray. So, in this case, which hand should they be taught to lead with? Paul Woodruff >>>>I teach LEOs to keep the stick to the rear. Most will use their baton in the strong/dominate hand, which will be the same side as their sidearm is holstered. Best to keep that side as far removed from the attacker as possible. >>Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Steve VanHarn" To: "Eskrima Digest" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:10:02 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Sinawali, Laring Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Gatpuno wrote : Steve Van Wrote: > ("siniwali" -- did I use this right GP Abon?) >This is correct, this what the spelling I used to see to all of the Visayan >instructor. But if you would learn it from the Tagalog instructor, this is >would be "Sinawali" its means criss cross pattern to the weaving format of >the bamboo mat used for walling and ceiling for our native houses. The >different is only the "i" and "a" in between (n) and (w) read like this Sini >or Sina. Me: Minor note but this was actually Crafty asking originally on spelling Siniwali. We use Tagalog and spell sinawali. Interesting to know the difference though. Gatpuno: >In regards of length of blades we have in the Philippines, its depend to the >usage, of the blades if is used to chopped some heavy wood, need a heavy >blades, the lighter the job is the longer the blade is, because if is only >used for grass bananas the blade is thinner and longer than the blades used >to the heavy duty chopping. The same thing in kitchen knife the Clever is >shorter but heavier knife that the Chef knife. Well, "Laring" is commonly >seen between 24" up to 17" blades not including the handle of Pulu or >Puluhan. Now its depend to the person how long your blade that you want to >handle. In Bicol region and Tagalog region there's a blade called "dahon >palay" meaning rice leaf shape blade, that length between 30" to 36" is quiet >long but thin leaf shape like the rice leaf weight between 1 lb. to 1 1/4 lb. >What I am saying is all blades that made in the Philippines is not fixed the >length so we cant just depend on the length. Some Krises, barong, pinsawali, >laring, janap, even kampilan not a fixed length, there some made longer than >the others regardless of style. I have two identical Tagalog dahon buho >(bamboo leaf shape blades), both in the different length, its is a personal >preference. If I am going to used for Largo off-course the longer weapon have >the advantage, but is you need to used to Serrada, Corto, Pikit meaning close >range you need a a shorter version blade but has a little weight to >compromised on the techniques applied on the closed confrontation and >basically pointed for effective thrusting and stabbing techniques employed >inside conrto range. Me: This is exactly along the lines of what my instructor related to me last night. He said the Laring can vary depending on the person's size and that he has adopted the size to our average (American) height. We also have children whose Laring is only about 20" total length. On an interesting side note he mentioned seeing a Muslim qroup in the central Visayas that used a Kampilan with a blade of only 10-12" and a handle similar to an Indonesian kris, push type, pistol grip. They kept it tucked in the waistband. Steve Van Harn Arnis Sikaran - Jornales System --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Tom Skoglind" To: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:52:39 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Giron Book Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Try www.kriscutlery.com. Under "Sandata", choose books. Tom Skoglind IFE Instructor www.inayaneskrima.com skoglind@inayaneskrima.com Inayan Federation of Eskrima >Greetings, >Where would I find "Memories ride the ebb of time" by Leo Giron? >Ray White --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] leading with the stick, or not? Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:27:11 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Personally, I'd teach them to lead with the baton and have the spray in their back hand since the spray is more of a "projectile" weapon, the hand holding it doesn't have to be involved at all except for aiming. Use the baton to fend of their attacks while spraying. Use the spray to open things up for the baton to attack. That's my thoughts, anyway, FWIW. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Paul Woodruff [mailto:paulw@gov.nl.ca] Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 10:47 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] leading with the stick, or not? Ray, Excellent point in response to my post, however I now realize that I didn't clarify my question, which is really two fold. The weapon side certainly needs to be set back from the confrontation for several reasons, but the debate I am having at work is in teaching this 'which hand do you lead with, weapon or empty?' to Court Officers, who aren't armed with firearms in this jurisdiction. The only equipment they carry on their belt is an expandable baton and pepper sray. So, in this case, which hand should they be taught to lead with? Paul Woodruff >>>>I teach LEOs to keep the stick to the rear. Most will use their baton in the strong/dominate hand, which will be the same side as their sidearm is holstered. Best to keep that side as far removed from the attacker as possible. >>Ray Terry _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest