Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:02:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 10 #169 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://SudludEskrima.com http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. ??? Estilo Redondo/Rueda (Paikot) "Maestro Francisco", "David Foggie" ("Roland Dantes") (Ingo Bojak) 2. The Legalities of Drinking and Carrying a Knife (Nat Nickele) 3. Old geezer's lament (Marc Denny) 4. re FMA in England (Patrick Davies) 5. Re Kinamutai (Patrick Davies) 6. 2nd FMA Festival (abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de) 7. Re- Barry M & knife laws (rocky pasiwk) 8. Understanding Flow Drills (Bobbe Edmonds) 9. Re: Empty Handed against the knife (Young Forest) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:37:16 +1000 (EST) From: Ingo Bojak To: Eskrima Subject: [Eskrima] ??? Estilo Redondo/Rueda (Paikot) "Maestro Francisco", "David Foggie" ("Roland Dantes") Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm still trying to find FMA in Melbourne, Australia. A recent issue of "Blitz", a local MA mag, had two FMA related items: 1) Technique demonstrations / interview with Punong Guro Roland Dantes. The partner in the pics is Taga Turo David Foggie, who does apparently live in Victoria (Melbourne is in Victoria). I'm trying to find out where David Foggie trains. A contact phone number / email address would also be welcome. I have a mobile phone number from a web search, which is related to an announcement for a "Warrior Escrima" seminar, but the number is disconnected currently. I have no idea what style David Foggie is involved in, perhaps some Modern Arnis. 2) Small ad with the following text: --- PHILIPPINES SCHOOL OF SELF DEFENCE Learn and be trained in the reality of the combative ways of the PILIPINO MARTIAL COMBAT from the man himself, Maestro Francisco, founder of the Philippines School of Self Defence, recipient and practicioner (44 years) of Estilo Redondo / Rueda (Paikot), the unique circular unrestricted free-flowing motion of fighting that evolved and derived from the tested and proven fighting ways of the Philippines: Arnis de Mano (Stick, Knife, Weaponry Fighting) Mano-Mano (Unarmed Combat) Buno' (Take-downs, Locks, Breaks and Ground Fighting) For Inquiries about Training, Classes and Seminars: Contact: Maestro Francisco Philippines School of Self Defence Ph (03) 9741 0988 041854781 Locations in Victoria: Werribee and Geelong, Melbourne Metropolitan areas opening soon. --- Can anybody shed light on "the man himself" or the mentioned system "Estilo Redondo / Rueda (Paikot)"? Anybody ever heard of him or the system? A web search didn't really yield any information. Thanks in advance. Ciao, Ingo -- For a person who has never seen the Orient a lotus is still a lotus, for me it is only a kind of onion. --- G. de Nerval --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:57:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Nat Nickele To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Legalities of Drinking and Carrying a Knife Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, With all this conversation about going out in public (esp. bar & nightclubs) with a knife, I got to thinking. (not that thinking is my strongest point, lol) FWIW, I was a political science major in college, and will start law school in a year. (which makes me, at this point, a legal wannabe) I was thinking that, while martial artists may, like Francis S. said, "knows that the 'true' weapon is the person not the knife," the average judge and/or jury may see things a bit differently. I think that if one of us brought and then used a knife in a bar/nightclub, the judge/jury would see that as intent for trouble. What they might see is 1)You brought a knife into an area that you were not supposed to. That by itself makes you look Sneaky and violent. 2)You used a knife with knowledge and precision on somebody. The extent of most people's martial arts knowedge come from "Kung Fu: the legend continues," and "Walker, Texas Ranger." They think that, as a martial artist, you should be completely capable of disarming and hog-tying a bar full of special forces without bruising more than their egos. If you don't live up to this expectation, you are just being cruel and punitive. As my old teacher (and I say old just because I know he reads this digest) used to tell me: "In court, they will take your blackbelt and hang you with it." As for those of you that "feel naked without a knife," consider how what you carry looks. MINIMIZE MALICIOUS APPEARANCE!!!!! A 10" bowie knife or a serrated spider knife may look cool, strike fear into your opponent, and appeal to your ego; it may even work better than other knives, but the bottom line is it looks mean and evil to a jury. It is easier to justify carring an old, cheap lock-blade folder with a short blade. (I believe that Dan Inasanto did a video about knives and did substancial damage to a side of beef with a cheap folder.) As long as it is sharp, a cheap knife will do the job just fine. You can tell the judge that you use it as a tool and forgot that you were carrying it. He might buy that for the buck knife, but it is less likely for the "green berret pocket saber 3000*", complete with blood grooves, that some people like to carry. Less likely you can say that you like to whittle with one of those.... Thanks for your patience with me, everybody! -Nat __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:06:15 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Old geezer's lament Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: With occasional comments (and spelling corrections :-) sorry Rock, couldn't resist) of mine interjected, Rock wrote: > Just catching up on the past month or so posts. Thought I'd give my 2 scents > on the hard core training stuff. , , , maybe others will think twice before they take the same path. > , , , > > Well now at the ripe old age of 36 See you in 14 years Rock! > and now the father of 2 and a 3rd on the way I look back at these things > and I realize that, I spent much of my youth always trying to prove myself > to others. This tends to go with the testicles. Young men compete for rank within the hierarchy. As for the age of 36, that's what I was we began the Dog Brothers fourteen years ago-- don't give up yet Rock! > I still believe that occasional hard realistic type training is important so >that an individual can see how > they will respond in real life., , , Well if you have ever seen > that movie I think its North Dallas Forty with Nick Nolte, when he gets out > of bed and his back and neck crack about 20 times and it takes him about 10 > minutes to get out of bed, well that's me in a nut shell. You should have gone into something safer-- like DB Real Contact Stickfighting ;-) that's quite an impressive list of injuries in the original post Rock. > I find myself now > playing with a little bit of Hsing I and Tai Chi, to help maybe fix some > things. Tom Bisio years ago told me that Hsing I helped him regain a lot of > his mobility that the hard banging had taken away. The Letha and Dhanda Yoga material of Dr. Gyi is absolutely superb in this regard. > For what its worth if you play hard you are going to get hit, no ifs ands > or buts about it,and its going to hurt, if you believe anything different I > have some great ocean front property in Ohio for sale. And however much it > hurts now, years down the road it will hurt much more. Now I am not saying > you shouldn't push yourself just be careful and make sure its worth it. Amen. > , , , Sorry So Long. I know I am still considered young in the realm of martial > arts, but believe me my advise comes from experience. > > Rocky Pasiwk One of the wisest sayings I've ever heard comes from Guro Inosanto's Gyrotonics/Pilates teacher and who has been of profound help to me in stabilizing a hip that had been pronounced as permanently unstable by a top chiropractor. "Do your best, not your most." Ann Barber Deep that. Thank you Ann. Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Patrick Davies To: 'eskrima digest' Cc: "'weirdwolf@ntlworld.com'" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:08:02 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] re FMA in England Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Martin Smith is still there I believe. There is also Richard Cotterill ( www.balintawak.co.uk 07951 835393 stickman@ntlworld.com) in that area I can't personally vouch for any of them. I can however vouch for the below with the highest respect. Or a bit further south you have Ewen Campbell in Northampton. Ewen is under Guro Inosanto. 07850434345 Warwick and you have Krishna Godhania 07702554662 Feel free to contact me for any further information. Message: 2 From: "Weirdwolf" Has anybody got any information on a group in the Lincolnshire/Nottinghamshire area of England? I did some courses with a bloke called Martin Smith a few years back but I can't seem to find any info that's up to date. Thanks in advance for any replies. Ted Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Patrick Davies To: 'eskrima digest' Cc: "'natnickele@yahoo.com'" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:06:50 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re Kinamutai Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Phil Dunlap had a site related to this (Kachin System of Burmese Groundfighting). Lots of biting. Try a web search. Might be worth a search in the archives as well as its been discussed before. From: Nat Nickele [mailto:natnickele@yahoo.com] Have any of you all ever heard of Kinamutai? I found a bit on the internet, but nothing super informative.It seems like a martial art devoted to biting. Is that all there is to it? My girlfriend just rolled her eyes when I enthusiastally told her about it. Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:18:21 +0200 From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dieter_Kn=FCttel?=) Organization: Abanico To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] 2nd FMA Festival Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi everybody, this is to inform you, that we will hold the 2nd Filipino Martial Arts Festival at the 6th and 7th of March 2004 in Dortmund/Germany. The last Festival was a huge success and was called the largest FMA seminar event worldwide. We were about 450 participants from 10 differen countries and 18 different FMA styles presented themselves. And the next shall be even better and bigger! Here is the list with the planned guest instructors of the 2nd FMA Festival 2004: Datu Dieter Knüttel (7th Dan Modern Arnis) Guro Udo Müller (Repräsentant Inosanto Kali Deutschland) Guro Franz Stroevens (5. Dan Doce Pares Escrima, NL) GM Diony Canete (10. Dan Doce Pares Escrima, Phil.) GM Ondo Carburnay (Lapunti Arnis de Abanico, Phil.) Guro Marc Denny (Dog Brother System, USA) Guro Marc Wiley (Serrada Escrima, USA) Guro Bob Breen (Inosanto Kali, GB) Guro Bob Dubljanin (Buka Jalan Pentjak Silat, Escrima, Kali) Guro Raoul Gianuzzi (Lapunti Arnis de Abanico, Lux) Guro Uli Weidle (Pekiti Tirsia Kali) Punong-Guro Julio Felices (Felices Kali) Guro Wolfgang Müller (Lameco Escrima) GM Toni Veeck (Balintawak Arnis) Masirib Guro Jeff Espinous (Kali Sikaran, Frankreich) Masirib Guro Emanuel Hart (Inayan Eskrima, USA) Guro Krishna Godhania (Warrior Eskrima, England) Special Guest Star: Master Roland Dantes (Phil.) If this list does not make you courious about this event, then you might not be interested in FMA. Even coming from the US would be worthwhile. It will be the top FMA event 2004. You can find information about this event under http://www.fma-festival.de Soon this page will be in english as well, but there is not much text right now anyway. You can see also pictures of the 1st FMA Festival from 2002. I will keep you updated, also about the costs when new information will come. Please let me know, when some of you are interested enough to make a long trip for the Festival, be it from the US or from elswhere around the world. Best regards from Germany Dieter Knüttel Datu of Modern Arnis __________________ http://www.abanico.de ABANICO Video Productions http://www.modern-arnis.de Modern Arnis Germany --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "rocky pasiwk" To: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:24:45 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Re- Barry M & knife laws Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Barry M Wrote: >"Martial arts" isnt sewing or stiching,it also isnt trying to >become a >death machine.Balance is a beautiful word.More so as you >get older. > "Moderation with an ocassional bout of insanity would best >describe my >training now" I like the Moderation with a bout of sanity thing do you mind if I quote it :-) As you say hind sight is 20/20, and no I wouldn't change everything, I guess what I was getting at was I probably wouldn't bang so hard just to prove myself to others, or to as they say follow the crowd. As you say moderation with bouts of insanity instead of vice versa. You guys that are fond of carring knifes, I don't know the laws on the Left Coast or else where, but did you know in Michigan it actually varies from city to city. What is legal in Dearborn Hgts, might get your butt put in jail in Dearborn. Just something to think about. Rocky Pasiwk --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Bobbe Edmonds" To: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:25:44 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Understanding Flow Drills Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is a large gap between static strike – block – counterstrike drills (ABCdarios,) and free-flow sparring. Several attributes are missing for the practitioner, making it difficult, if not impossible, to jump right into sparring & try to achieve the flow. Sumbrada takes the practitioner to more complex activity: It develops the basic attributes learned in the static drills, and applies them with interactive motion. In static-type drills, one person feeds a line and holds that position, while the receiver works his technique. In Sumbrada BOTH participants work technique simultaneously, developing the interactive attribute (exchanging varied technique with a partner while in MOTION). When a basic exchange, or “Flow” is achieved, more difficult & advanced elements are added to the basic game. Sumbrada, like Hubad, is excellent for this, because it allows you to add, subtract, or mix ‘n match any number of skills, ranges, footwork, etc. A flow drill operates in a very basic structure, usually between 3-5 moves, with basic angles of attack. The principle of this is simplicity, a fundamental pattern & tempo to build off. Once you have achieved a comfortable level with the basics, you add variations to the basic idea, i.e. disarms, double weapons, knife, empty hands, traps, & limb destructions. The depth of variation really depends on your own imagination and ability. Experiment with different footwork patterns & attack angles. Remember to start simple and build to the complex, keeping the idea of flow in mind. Remember, flow drills are the MAP, not the TERRITORY. Flow drills commonly act as a bridge between static or "Dead" drills, & sparring. It's easy to get hypnotized into thinking you are a fighter simply because you work the punyo sumbrada really well. Pretty to look at & fun to do, many people STOP at flow drills & never progress to sparring. This is a mistake. Sumbrada helps to ingrain specific reactions, and open up neuromuscular pathways that would be very difficult to develop without drilling. The basic drills contain single strike & block techniques, with minimal footwork. This is due to the fact that beginners can usually concentrate on only one action at a time, particularly when dealing with weapons. Sumbrada introduces multiple attacks, defenses, & various lines of engagement from oblique angles. This teaches you to bring several attributes together at once (Footwork, blocking, checking hand, striking & zoning) while interacting with a partner. Of course, you won’t really fight “as it is written” in the sumbrada, but you WILL use the reactions (attributes) it develops. Whenever you play sumbrada, there are always a few points you should keep in mind: 1: IDENTIFY THE MOTION Pay attention to what the drill is trying to tell you. Since a good sumbrada usually works several skills at once, it may take a while for you to discover all the uses & variations of the drill. Break the drill apart & isolate each line of attack to discover the application of each movement. 2: CLEAN LINES = CLEAN TECHNIQUE It’s easy to let yourself go in the flow of sumbrada. Often a (beginner) student gets so wrapped up in the flow itself that he allows his weapon to wander from the prescribed path. THIS IS A MISTAKE. The drill works these predetermined lines so the student can safely train strikes, blocks, checks & disarms at high speeds. Although advanced practitioners often leave the sheet music to play freely, the beginning student should pay attention to every point being presented to them in the drill. If you find yourself flailing about, slow down & recapture the basic lines. Remember: FAST is not the flow, CONTINUOS is the flow. 3: CHECKING HAND Sumbrada is the place where you leave the tapi-tapion drills & employ the practical application of the checking hand. Working the sumbrada at full & half-beat timing allows you to experiment with different tempos between the weapon and the checking hand. The importance of the checking hand becomes apparent at this stage, particularly against a lager or stronger opponent. DANGERS OF SUMBRADA Although there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from sumbrada, it is not a drill you should learn without a knowledgeable instructor. There are a few conditions to define before you explore the drill: 1: Most sumbrada drills work off an attack/counterattack basis, where the blocks are stick against stick. Right off the bat, this does not teach proper targeting. This can give rise to misconceptions about the mechanics & effectiveness of a block, if not viewed objectively. 2: The response the drill gives for any attack may not be the response an actual attacker gives. Sumbrada drills encourage you to stay & play, whereas a real attacker may break in & out of range, never allowing you to establish a “flow”, or patterned attack on him. Do not allow yourself to become comfortable or complacent in the drill, be alert for openings on yourself and your opponent. Later in the drill, you should move on to adding extraneous attacks within the flow, to try to catch each other unawares. This will help to prevent you from assuming a programmed response in combat. 3: I mentioned earlier about the benefits of working with a partner. It is understood that “Partner” does not mean “Opponent”. The physical intent of a drill is NEVER the same way as a real fight. A serious attacker will be aiming FOR YOU as opposed to aiming for your STICK. Furthermore, the force with which he attacks will be much more powerful, & the angles more erratic. It is essential that the fundamentals of attacks & blocks be established before training sumbrada, so you are not training with preconceived misconceptions. Bobbe Edmonds “Find your enemy and shoot him down. Everything else is bullshit.” —Manfred von Richtofen --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:38:50 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Empty Handed against the knife Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Mmmm, what odds would people give an unarmed person (no matter how well >trained) against multiple armed opponents that REALLY want to do them >harm. I'd be interested in people on the list giving their estimates of >percentage success rates with regards unarmed against armed (knife) >techniques they have learnt. The more time I've spent playing with >knives the less chance I give myself in a real situation. I don't think >I'm any slouch but I'd rate myself at around 5 to 10 percent. I would rate just about anybody you care to mention as having a probability between slim and none. A comment from one of the de Thouars brothers would be apropos: if your opponent has a knife, take 5 years off your training. If he has had one lesson on how to use the knife, take 10 years off your training. Badger Ottawa ON _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2003: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest